U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-22-2011, 09:11 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,252,501 times
Reputation: 1315

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
That does address a valuable point - isn't a movement or organisation which exists solely to oppose something with nothing to offer itself, flawed at the start?
If there is an organization devoted solely to opposing theism, I agree. I think that a lot of organizations get incorrectly labelled in this way by people who either don't understand their mission, or just want to be able to demonize them.

American Atheists are a civil liberties organization dedicated to the specific issues faced by non-theists, really not much different that groups like the Home School Legal Defense Association.

CFI (Center for Inquiry) defines itself as "an institution devoted to promoting science, reason, freedom of inquiry, and humanist values." More of a socio-political thing, maybe like the NAACP.

The IHEU (International Humanist and Ethical Union) is an organization much like you describe that is advocating for a common ethical culture based on reason and free inquiry. It is definitely more of a social movement than a political one. It is actually a fairly broad group that encompasses a lot of viewpoints.

The closest thing to a non-theistinc church I have come across is Ethical Culture societies, which function much like a church. They don't have any position on theism, but instead that the position that morality should be disentangled from theology. There are not very many of these, and they have been around since 1877, so they are not a new thing.

I think if you dig into history, you will see that non-theism in the late 1800's was a lot more church-like than today. Today it seems more organized into political and social organizations, rather than mimicking religious ones.

Interesting subject, to be sure.
NoCapo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-22-2011, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,784,630 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Looks like theres a few of your atheist colleagues in this thread who think organized Atheism has some trappings of a religious church. Would they be stupid then ?
What trappings?....An atheist group is as much like a church as a feminist group is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 10:20 AM
 
8,680 posts, read 13,311,437 times
Reputation: 15273
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
What trappings?....An atheist group is as much like a church as a feminist group is.

Great analogy. I'll second that.

Besides, if atheists want to join a congregation, go to "church" where folks sing songs, engage in a set program, and listen to a minister give a talk, they can become [URL="http://www.uua.org/"]Unitarian-Universalists[/URL]. I was a UU after leaving the Roman Catholic Church, got married in a UU congregation, and was an active member for a few years. I belonged to a [URL="http://www.uucava.org/"]large congregation[/URL] with some terrific ministers and enjoyed the services. Also, it didn't hurt that there were a fair number of UUs in the DC area, relatively speaking, and the general population there was aware of what UUs are, unlike my current location, where if you mention it, people might mistake you for a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonie"]Moonie[/URL].

I'm not active in it anymore, for a number of reasons. UU is considered an organized religion (or, as UUs joke, a disorganized religion), and in general, I have problems with the concept of organized religion. Still, I appreciate [URL="http://www.uua.org/beliefs/principles/"]what they stand for[/URL] and still check in and watch some of the YouTube messages and stuff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 10:25 AM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,740,053 times
Reputation: 20226
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Ive noticed that there are a few camps around the country for atheist children in particular, in addition to national conferences and seminars for atheistic Secular Humanists ; this in addition to such entities as American Atheist Association and others, who offer regularly scheduled local meetings with agendas , material handouts, and collection of dues.

Is atheism becoming rather church-like , and what do you foresee for the future ? Please discuss. Thanks.
Agendas, material handouts and collection of dues does not make it anything even resembling church-like. All kinds of groups have those activities.

None of those fit the definition of church;

-a building for public Christian worship

-
the whole body of Christian believers; Christendom.

-any division of this body professing the same creed and acknowledging the same ecclesiastical authority; a Christian denomination: the Methodist Church.

-that part of the whole Christian body, or of a particular denomination, belonging to the same city, country, nation, etc.

You're grasping at invisible straws trying to make any connection whatsoever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 11:32 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,975,384 times
Reputation: 8282
If I'm going to a meeting, they are serving so good ales, or I'll stay home and enjoy a good ale here.

Better yet, off to the tasting room at one of the dozen or so craft micro breweries here.

One of our favorite's, Wedge Brewery


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osw47Gb8nO8&feature=player_embedded#!


Come on down and pay your respects the hops god
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 12:15 PM
 
2,996 posts, read 4,922,529 times
Reputation: 1793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
Agendas, material handouts and collection of dues does not make it anything even resembling church-like. All kinds of groups have those activities.

None of those fit the definition of church;

-a building for public Christian worship

-the whole body of Christian believers; Christendom.

-any division of this body professing the same creed and acknowledging the same ecclesiastical authority; a Christian denomination: the Methodist Church.

-that part of the whole Christian body, or of a particular denomination, belonging to the same city, country, nation, etc.

You're grasping at invisible straws trying to make any connection whatsoever.

Heres a few trappings that come to mind...besides, the U.S. Government recognizes atheistic Secular Humanism as an organized Religion :

1. It is highly organized thruout this nation. There are many large
Atheist Organizations that would love a greater constituency.
2. There are even Atheist Camps thruout the nation with a well
publicized large one in Ohio.
3. They meet regularly to discuss local and national agendas which
include the ridiculing of Theists and Christians .
4. The Atheist Organizations collect dues regularly just like Churches
collect free will offerings on a Sunday to cover overhead, expenses,
activities, and material distribution.
5. They have very large national Conferences yearly just like Church
Denominations do. A very large one was held last year in Colorado.
6. There are active Internet Atheist NG's to educate followers in the
sheer impossibility of matter and naturalism accounting for the many
many complex designs and engineering of our Universe, Solar System,
Planet, Human Bodys, DNA, et al...
7. They want macro evolution theories taught as 'scientific fact' in
public schools without ANY time for scientific Creationism/ I.D.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 12:26 PM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,740,053 times
Reputation: 20226
Oh my frickin' god, can you not read?

You obviously don't have a clue so I did you the favour of actually posting the definition of church.

Thanks Djuna for enlightening me should have been your response.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,992,248 times
Reputation: 5074
'Scientific Creationism' is the greatest oxymoron of all time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,784,630 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Heres a few trappings that come to mind...besides, the U.S. Government recognizes atheistic Secular Humanism as an organized Religion :
I'd like to see evidence of that.

Quote:
1. It is highly organized thruout this nation. There are many large
Atheist Organizations that would love a greater constituency.
It is highly organized thruout this nation. There are many large
Feminist Organizations that would love a greater constituency.

Quote:
2. There are even Atheist Camps thruout the nation with a well
publicized large one in Ohio.
There are even Feminist Camps thruout the nation.

Quote:
3. They meet regularly to discuss local and national agendas which include the ridiculing of Theists and Christians .
They meet regularly to discuss local and national agendas which
include the ridiculing of men and the glass ceiling.

Quote:
4. The Atheist Organizations collect dues regularly just like Churches collect free will offerings on a Sunday to cover overhead, expenses, activities, and material distribution.
The Feminist Organizations collect dues regularly just like Churches
collect free will offerings on a Sunday to cover overhead, expenses,
activities, and material distribution.

Quote:
5. They have very large national Conferences yearly just like Church Denominations do. A very large one was held last year in Colorado.
They have very large national Conferences yearly just like Church denominations do.
Quote:
6. There are active Internet Atheist NG's to educate followers in the sheer impossibility of matter and naturalism accounting for the many
many complex designs and engineering of our Universe, Solar System,
Planet, Human Bodys, DNA, et al...
There are active Internet Feminist NG's to educate followers in the oppression of women.
Quote:
7. They want macro evolution theories taught as 'scientific fact' in
public schools without ANY time for scientific Creationism/ I.D.
They want the equality of women and women's rights taught in schools
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-22-2011, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,280,584 times
Reputation: 4279
I think organized Atheism has to tote a fine line between being a principled movement and gathering of people to advance a frame of thought and becoming "preachy."

Anybody with any knowledge of how our government works knows that larger scale movements are what influence politicians. Well, actually, it's donations but money has to come from somewhere, right.

In so much as organizations that lobby lawmakers to separate American politics from the religious right, I am all for that. In order to be more powerful and to have your voice heard, you more or less have to have an organized group to get your point across. I wish that wasn't necessarily the way things worked but, alas, those are the cards we're dealt.

However, if you're talking about a group of people who get together and all pat each other on the back for being good fellow Atheists then I find that a bit uncomfortable. I like to have an objectionable opinion that makes me feel uncomfortable from time to time. It allows one to truly examine things with a frame of thought that is not always reinforced with positive affirmations. Even if I wholeheartedly and vehemently disagree with something, I think it's good to be around those ideas if for no other reason than to keep oneself grounded.

One of the biggest problems I think religion has is that it doesn't allow itself an objectionable opinion. Every single Sunday, churches bring people in from miles around so they can all sit around and agree on a bunch of stuff spewed from the mouth of a single orator. Then, in one of the most communal bonding moments in human nature, they usually get up and eat donuts or go out to breakfast or lunch together. The whole process is a reaffirmation of beliefs without any objectionable criticism. I would actually be interested in attending a "Church of Debate" where people of two opposing viewpoints debated one another in front of an audience every week. One week you could have a Seventh-Day Adventist debating a Roman Catholic and the next week you could have an Atheist debating a Southern Baptist and so on and so forth. This would allow people to get a daring flash and taste of what the other side has to say and it would make them uncomfortable! And that's the whole point! People would have to listen to how another side thinks and it would compel them to realize that there are ideas different than their own.

So, while I see the need to have organized groups of Atheists to press certain legal matters, I don't necessarily feel comfortable around a whole plethora of Atheists wishing to break bread with one another over their own ideas. Yes, it's a lot more comforting to be around people who think the exact same as you and it's a lot easier to navigate within those social confines. But, I don't think it offers an objectionable enough opinion for people to remain grounded for an extended period of time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top