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Old 11-28-2011, 02:30 PM
 
51 posts, read 64,563 times
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Hiker45 it's no different to any other system of taxation. Wealthier people pay a greater proportion of their income towards public works, roads, schools, paying civil servants and so on. Do they use those facilities more? Not necessarily, but that's how a tax works. No country with universal health care experiences a situation where the system is 'overwhelmed with poor people'. Recent immigrants receive health care just as anyone else does but the system copes very easily. Generally anyone on a middle income has additional private health cover, which means if they need to plan to go to hospital they will generally go to a nicer, wealthier hospital with their choice of doctor. If they need emergency treatment they present to where the emergency can be treated quickly, which will generally be the closest public emergency room, though some private hospitals also offer these services. These areas are the best equipped places but they are open to everyone even (shock horror) poor immigrants. I don't think anyone cares if they're in the middle of having a heart attack. The waiting time is governed by triage: if your case is urgent you are seen quickly and will be transferred to a private hospital (they are usually in close proximity) if you need to be admitted. if you presented with a cold (which some people do for reasons unknown to everyone) when you should have gone to a family doctor then you'll probably be waiting for many hours, because all the more urgent cases coming in will continue to be seen first.

We have a pretty complex social welfare system. If you have children the government supplements your income on a sliding scale until your family earns over about $150k (which isn't uncommon). If you are low income, you get all sorts of tax breaks (in fact it's about to change so no one pays tax till they earn at least $20k which here is a very, very low income you generally only see with students or part time workers). You get various other allowances too, usually based on total family earnings, such as rent assistance and childcare benefits. We actually have almost no people who are truly poor. We do have 'dole bludgers' which are people who have a tendency to not work and remain on social welfare all their life, but there are renewed efforts to get people who do this into work or cut benefits. Usually people on very low incomes are very well supported. If you earn about $45k for a family and have a handful of kids, you will easily get an extra $20k in benefits. We are a high middle income family and still get an additional $10k or so in childrens benefits. Homelessness happens here but it's rare and usually connected to mental illness rather than poverty. We would not tolerate people ending up on the streets or so poor they need to flood a healthcare system. Going to the doctor here is a basic, unquestioned right and it's always possible to find free doctors (low income people get health care assistance for things like medicines and dentistry too). For those who choose to, it's pretty much possible to never come into contact with 'poor people' if that's a concern. People have plenty of ideas on good hospitals and 'bad' ones, good doctors and doctors they prefer to avoid.

0.075 people do not generally wake up and say to themselves 'I think I'll become an atheist'. It's not a belief system, but the absence of one. People don't want to be atheists, they just ARE atheists, because they do not believe in a god or supernatural force - most often because they see no good evidence of the existence of one. I made no active choice to be an atheist: it was just by default. I've read and studied the bible more extensively than most Christians and I find nothing convncing, and much that is grossly contradictory and inconsistent. I'm sure I'd find other religious texts just as unmoving.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
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About our American health care system:

I think many people are against Obamacare because they are very happy with the health care they currently receive and are afraid any changes would make things worse for themselves.

People criticize our health care system and say it is not as good as Canada or England. The South African golfer Ernie Els said he loved living in London, but when his son was diagnosed with autism he moved to Florida to get better care for his son. The Prime Minister of Nova Scotia needed a heart operation that could have been performed for free in Canada, but he went to Florida and paid the full cost because the doctors were more skilled.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:34 PM
 
51 posts, read 64,563 times
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Actually my parents gave me mixed opinions. I made my own conclusions in life, but 'becoming an atheist' did not drive these conclusions. All I needed to decide was there is no evidence for god. No indoctrination was required. Indoctrination is arguably required to be Christian.

If no expose to religion occurred, everyone would be an atheist. However, in aid of your little quest, here are hundreds of proofs of God's existence: Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence

Yeah but the argument American doctors are more skilled is absurd: America actually sits relatively low when you compare the demographics of health from life expectancy to population morbidity to infant mortality. It's much lower than almost every other Western nation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate

There thing in common between those at the top is universal health care.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,554 posts, read 5,398,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Hows big is your faith ? I dont have enough faith to be an atheist , although i tried .
I don't have enough faith to have a really cool imaginary friend like yours, but I sure tried (when I was about 7).
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcroc View Post
Yeah but the argument American doctors are more skilled is absurd
As I mentioned earlier, Ernie Els and the Prime Minister of Nova Scotia would probably disagree with you.
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:11 PM
 
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,554 posts, read 5,398,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
they are often limited in cartridge selection, mostly requiring that they utilize sporterized BSAs and Enfields,
Sounds related to the old motorcycle makers.
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:19 PM
 
1,272 posts, read 1,597,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
REPLY: People CHOOSE to be an atheist ; every child at the age of 4-7 asks their Parent(s) WHERE did all this come from ? / HOW did all of this get here ? / WHY are we here ? , etc...
Not a single one of those questions are inherently theistic or require God(s) as their answer. "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable reply. Children must be indoctrinated into believing in a god - and almost invariably it's the one their parents were indoctrinated into believing in.
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:32 PM
 
51 posts, read 64,563 times
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Yes but whether they disagree isn't borne out by the geographic data on the subject which is real evidence, as opposed to anecdote. I'm sure American doctors are very highly skilled, but this doesn't mean the system can't be vastly improved or other countries have doctors who perform better under different schemes.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
Reputation: 1399
Jcroc, I think the problem with health care in America is that many people cannot afford it. We have a lot of poor people in America.

People with a lot of money (not us) or people with good health insurance (like our extended family) probably get the best health care in the world.

The poverty in America is a real problem, and it gets worse because the poor people keep having a bunch of kids and the illegal immigrants keep coming across our borders.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,554 posts, read 5,398,343 times
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Jcroc, please make it a point to do the drive down the Big Sur coastline. It's one of the most amazing areas I've seen in the U.S.
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