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Old 09-07-2016, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 795,203 times
Reputation: 1004

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
Meh. I don't care if they want to put crap on the roadside after a crash...as long as they go back and clean it up after a bit, otherwise it's litter that our tax dollars have to pay to clean up. If their little shrine includes a cross symbol, that's their choice. I think it's kind of stupid, but if it makes them feel better...but they still gotta clean it up after.
I see them all the time and it does not bother me. What I don't want to see is official privilege given for personal issues. I don't even like MLT having an official holiday. Nothing against him, it just isnt a government duty. As much as I admire Washington and Lincoln, im glad their recognition was moved to Presidents' Day. Public domain is no place for personal reflections.
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:07 AM
 
39,302 posts, read 10,937,819 times
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Took me a while to figure out why the sight of a cross irritates me. It is because it is either proclaiming faith in a lie and thus the irritation is more pronounced when it is done in public -an in yore face shouting of faith - delusion, or the unthinking parading about of religious symbols by people who seem unaware of the implications.

Maybe I'm unusual, but I was bewildered as a kid by those who seemed to think that images of death and destruction was good family entertainment (1) and as a teenager by girls (who didn't display any particular religious conviction, I am happy to say), who wore as a bit of jewellery a representation of a man being tortured to death.

So the talk about no public endorsement of one particular religion is a tactic, like 'we are all born atheist' - though both are also right, as it happens. But really the ongoing atheist beef is with the ongoing peddling of a lie and delusion. And this applies to all of them, from Cayce's Atlantis nonsense to the Martian Aztecs crap. Christianity only gets special attention because of its' special position in western society.

I eventually saw it clear (or Daniel Harbour helped me see it) we need a logical, rational, secular and humanist worldview. Globally. We may never get it but that's the plan. And on a nation by nation basis and a continent at a time, will do very well.

And what about Santa? What about Harry Potter, Star Wars and Balinese Hinduism? As fun and entertainment and even an art form? That's absolutely fine, and can even receive public funding and ticket money even if some of them believe it. Just so the rest of don't take it seriously over age 6, and the believers don't expect that we should.

(1) and one of the bamboozlements that made my blood boil was the"A" team where the baddies were blown up, machine gunned or subjected to all manner of cartoon -like destruction - but nobody ever got killed.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-09-2016 at 08:19 AM..
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 7,297,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
I see them all the time and it does not bother me. What I don't want to see is official privilege given for personal issues. I don't even like MLT having an official holiday. Nothing against him, it just isnt a government duty. As much as I admire Washington and Lincoln, im glad their recognition was moved to Presidents' Day. Public domain is no place for personal reflections.
I have no idea what you think Martin Luther King, Jr, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln have to do with the separation of church and state.

As for 'President's Day', that is just a common term used to refer to the official holiday of Washington's Birthday.

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Old 09-10-2016, 07:05 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,027,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc2sc778 View Post
I have a question for the Atheists, purely informational. This is in regards to a cross or other religious symbol being placed on government owned property, whether it be federal, state, local, etc.

I have always wondered why [some] atheists have such a problem with for example, a privately paid for cross being put on a public roadside in memory of a State Trooper that was killed there.

If you don't believe in God then how can a symbol of something you don't believe in to begin with possibly offend you? I can see (and understand) why some would have a problem with the government paying for such a monument but what does the average atheist care if a cross is paid for by a private indivudal and stuck in the ground? Are you offended that a gravestone in the shape of a cross would be marking a grave at Arlington, which is all federal property? If so why?

I have heard a number of Atheists say they don't care about "IN GOD WE TRUST" on money because the words mean nothing to them anyway. Why does it seem to be so different for a cross to some Atheists? Or is it a minority that has problems with this type of thing?

Please, I am not slamming your beliefs so please don't do that to me. We all have our beliefs and I respect yours so please respect mine. I am not here to debate the existence or not of God. Thanks
I would be offended by ANY roadside memorial being erected on public property. It is a slap in the face to the person who died in whatever accident led to the memorial, since it is now a potential cause for distraction and future accidents/deaths. People rubber-neck to look at the memorial and do not pay attention to the road, which can ultimately lead to more deaths.

Here is an example of just one of many accidents caused by distraction due to a roadside memorial:
Another crash at North Auburn roadside tribute to dead teens | Auburn Journal
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:05 PM
 
1,040 posts, read 895,175 times
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Here is my go-to resource for separation of Church and State. You can view various topics by choosing them from the drop-down.

It clarifies the legalities.

https://ffrf.org/faq/state-church/it...ent-violations
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:27 PM
 
Location: USA
3,443 posts, read 1,265,615 times
Reputation: 1017
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc2sc778 View Post
I have a question for the Atheists, purely informational. This is in regards to a cross or other religious symbol being placed on government owned property, whether it be federal, state, local, etc.

I have always wondered why [some] atheists have such a problem with for example, a privately paid for cross being put on a public roadside in memory of a State Trooper that was killed there.

If you don't believe in God then how can a symbol of something you don't believe in to begin with possibly offend you? I can see (and understand) why some would have a problem with the government paying for such a monument but what does the average atheist care if a cross is paid for by a private indivudal and stuck in the ground? Are you offended that a gravestone in the shape of a cross would be marking a grave at Arlington, which is all federal property? If so why?

I have heard a number of Atheists say they don't care about "IN GOD WE TRUST" on money because the words mean nothing to them anyway. Why does it seem to be so different for a cross to some Atheists? Or is it a minority that has problems with this type of thing?

Please, I am not slamming your beliefs so please don't do that to me. We all have our beliefs and I respect yours so please respect mine. I am not here to debate the existence or not of God. Thanks
Would you object to an Islamic star and crescent monument being placed on public property? Hindu shrine? What about a Satanic monument?
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Old 09-11-2016, 05:01 AM
 
583 posts, read 1,494,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton View Post
What i'm saying is that the upside down cross represents Satanism(which I am not an adherent of) and if placed on the side of the road, would you do something to try and take it down? Or even let's say a pentagram by the side of the road marking an adherents death?
lol sorry the origin of the inverted cross is Saint Peter as he was done upside down old churches dedicated to had it up side down,
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:11 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,870,661 times
Reputation: 996
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc2sc778 View Post
I have a question for the Atheists, purely informational. This is in regards to a cross or other religious symbol being placed on government owned property, whether it be federal, state, local, etc.

I have always wondered why [some] atheists have such a problem with for example, a privately paid for cross being put on a public roadside in memory of a State Trooper that was killed there.

If you don't believe in God then how can a symbol of something you don't believe in to begin with possibly offend you? I can see (and understand) why some would have a problem with the government paying for such a monument but what does the average atheist care if a cross is paid for by a private indivudal and stuck in the ground? Are you offended that a gravestone in the shape of a cross would be marking a grave at Arlington, which is all federal property? If so why?

I have heard a number of Atheists say they don't care about "IN GOD WE TRUST" on money because the words mean nothing to them anyway. Why does it seem to be so different for a cross to some Atheists? Or is it a minority that has problems with this type of thing?

Please, I am not slamming your beliefs so please don't do that to me. We all have our beliefs and I respect yours so please respect mine. I am not here to debate the existence or not of God. Thanks
It is because they actually don't not believe in God (sorry for the double negatives). They are philosophically opposed to the idea of a God.

A true atheist is simply a nonbeliever. They don't have much reason to participate here, because they are indifferent, rather than actively opposed to the idea of a deity. I have no problem with actual atheists. But anti-theists basically have the wrong-headed notion that all religion is evil, without a better alternative. Sort of "I don't have a better idea, but religion is something that I have no use for. AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER!" But they don't say it like that.

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 09-11-2016 at 09:33 AM..
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 795,203 times
Reputation: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
I have no idea what you think Martin Luther King, Jr, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln have to do with the separation of church and state.

As for 'President's Day', that is just a common term used to refer to the official holiday of Washington's Birthday.
Your Christian religion and idols don't belong on public roadways. I used MLT, Washington and Lincoln as examples of government giving special recognition to individuals when it's duty is to only manage general issues. Public domain should not be littered with individual recognitions. Government holidays should remain general in nature and not recognize individuals.
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 795,203 times
Reputation: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
I have no idea what you think Martin Luther King, Jr, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln have to do with the separation of church and state.

As for 'President's Day', that is just a common term used to refer to the official holiday of Washington's Birthday.
Actually, Presidents' Day currently recognizes Washington and Lincoln. My point is that we should not be recognizing individual presidents with holidays.

Last edited by maat55; 09-11-2016 at 08:27 PM.. Reason: Correction
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