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Old 09-12-2016, 12:11 AM
7,802 posts, read 5,292,582 times
Reputation: 2973


Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
It is because they actually don't not believe in God (sorry for the double negatives). They are philosophically opposed to the idea of a God.
And as per usual when you roll into the forum declaring what you think atheists think and believe, rather than listen to them tell you what they think and believe, you are simply wrong. The atheist position is generally that there is no reason on offer (least of all from you) to think there is a god. Any other position YOU want to invent for them, is purely your imagination at work.

They don't have much reason to participate here, because they are indifferent, rather than actively opposed to the idea of a deity.[/quote]

Yet I have not met a single atheist in ALL my work who is "actively opposed to the idea of a deity". What they are actively opposed to is certain effects belief in a deity has when it manifests publicly in our society.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
I have no problem with actual atheists.
So you invent atheists that do not exist in your head to have a problem with instead.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
But anti-theists basically have the wrong-headed notion that all religion is evil, without a better alternative.
Firstly holding that position does not make it incumbent to offer an alternative, even though many actually do but you simply ignore.

Secondly their position is not generally that all religion is evil, and they do not have ANY issue at all with personal belief and personal religion. It is the intersection between religion and society where the issues arise.

And thirdly the position is not entirely "wrong headed" as the benefits of religion are NOT clear, but the harms of it very much are.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Sort of "I don't have a better idea, but religion is something that I have no use for. AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER!" But they don't say it like that.
Yea funny how people holding positions you entirely invented for them inconveniently do not espouse their positions in the way your fantasy narrative expects. Wonder why that is.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:52 AM
39,280 posts, read 10,937,819 times
Reputation: 5104
That's the other kind of argument theist use against atheists - misrepresentation of their views so they are easier to discredit. The classic 'Strawman'.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:50 AM
10,587 posts, read 15,682,627 times
Reputation: 11952
Originally Posted by nc2sc778 View Post
I really don't see the relavance. I believe in the symblance of the cross. You, if you are an Atheist, do not believe in that. It may offend me because of my beliefs. But to you, a cross would just be a pole with a stick on it no matter what way it was in the ground and should not matter either way to you.

Sorry, the comparison is not the same.

I *think* what you are trying to suggest is that if a cross upside down is offensive to me, that a cross with the intent of symbolizing God is offensive to you.

If that is the intent of your comment, that goes back to my original question. Why does an object that has no relevance to you offend you?


I'd say it's a moot question.
Cross, in a form and many are there for a cross the way you refer to it, is present everywhere. Any building, old or new, has crosses all over. Anywhere you go, you can SEE them.
So, one can say, is swastika. Many are Masonic symbols on money, for example.
Symbols are everywhere.
I think, OP, reason I balded what you said is this - it is not the shape of something.
Your mind, via senses, sees cross as religious symbol. It will then single it out of any environment, no matter how "non religious" and "non christian" it is. Heck, you can go into a forest, place where nature absolutely does not care about any religion, and see - clearly! - many crosses from say crossed branches, trees, etc.
We see what we want to see.
It will take a planet remodeling to remove all "crosses" and why? It is a symbol only for one who wants to see it as such. Hence why worry? They won't let one hang a "cross" on a wall in a public building? Fine. Windows on that wall already have cross in form of glass frame for 4 pieces of glass, for example. Or, there are other forms of it all over that building anyway.
That's why I'm saying - it's a moot question. Everything is already "crossed" anyway, as much as it is covered in other symbols.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:33 PM
Location: Boise, ID
8,043 posts, read 23,786,054 times
Reputation: 9334
My problem with it, and yes, I do have one, is that preferential treatment is given to some religions over others. Why should the cross or the 10 commandments be approved, but other religious symbols be denied? They shouldn't be, and yet they sometimes are. And when they aren't, Christians are usually up in arms that there is a Swastika or an upside down pentagram are next to their holy cross, or even just the star of David, or a Coexist logo.

And to take it to the extreme, once you have a dozen or more, who picks which ones are in which location? Which are the most visible? Which are there not room for, so they get put in the back room? Do you draw lots? Do you rotate them out? Even if the original monument was paid for with private money, before too long, taxpayer dollars are going to have to be used for the logistics.

Allow all or deny all. Which means in order to not have chaos with a courthouse with 4,350 different religious symbols all vying for the best position, you deny all.

As for a cross on the roadside, I have no issue with that as long as it isn't distracting to drivers. And I have no issue whatsoever with a religious marker on individual tombstones, whether it is on government ground or not. What someone chooses to do on their, or a loved ones headstone is their personal decision.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:07 PM
1,294 posts, read 613,187 times
Reputation: 587
Originally Posted by nc2sc778 View Post
I have heard a number of Atheists say they don't care about "IN GOD WE TRUST" on money because the words mean nothing to them anyway. Why does it seem to be so different for a cross to some Atheists? Or is it a minority that has problems with this type of thing?
I as well am in the don't care boat. As long as I'm not paying for it, go for it. It's not gonna make a difference to me driving past it.
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