U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-12-2016, 12:11 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,292,582 times
Reputation: 2973

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
It is because they actually don't not believe in God (sorry for the double negatives). They are philosophically opposed to the idea of a God.
And as per usual when you roll into the forum declaring what you think atheists think and believe, rather than listen to them tell you what they think and believe, you are simply wrong. The atheist position is generally that there is no reason on offer (least of all from you) to think there is a god. Any other position YOU want to invent for them, is purely your imagination at work.

They don't have much reason to participate here, because they are indifferent, rather than actively opposed to the idea of a deity.[/quote]

Yet I have not met a single atheist in ALL my work who is "actively opposed to the idea of a deity". What they are actively opposed to is certain effects belief in a deity has when it manifests publicly in our society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
I have no problem with actual atheists.
So you invent atheists that do not exist in your head to have a problem with instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
But anti-theists basically have the wrong-headed notion that all religion is evil, without a better alternative.
Firstly holding that position does not make it incumbent to offer an alternative, even though many actually do but you simply ignore.

Secondly their position is not generally that all religion is evil, and they do not have ANY issue at all with personal belief and personal religion. It is the intersection between religion and society where the issues arise.

And thirdly the position is not entirely "wrong headed" as the benefits of religion are NOT clear, but the harms of it very much are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Sort of "I don't have a better idea, but religion is something that I have no use for. AND YOU SHOULDN'T EITHER!" But they don't say it like that.
Yea funny how people holding positions you entirely invented for them inconveniently do not espouse their positions in the way your fantasy narrative expects. Wonder why that is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-12-2016, 03:52 AM
 
39,280 posts, read 10,937,819 times
Reputation: 5104
That's the other kind of argument theist use against atheists - misrepresentation of their views so they are easier to discredit. The classic 'Strawman'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-12-2016, 10:50 AM
 
10,587 posts, read 15,682,627 times
Reputation: 11952
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc2sc778 View Post
I really don't see the relavance. I believe in the symblance of the cross. You, if you are an Atheist, do not believe in that. It may offend me because of my beliefs. But to you, a cross would just be a pole with a stick on it no matter what way it was in the ground and should not matter either way to you.

Sorry, the comparison is not the same.

I *think* what you are trying to suggest is that if a cross upside down is offensive to me, that a cross with the intent of symbolizing God is offensive to you.

If that is the intent of your comment, that goes back to my original question. Why does an object that has no relevance to you offend you?

Thanks

I'd say it's a moot question.
Cross, in a form and many are there for a cross the way you refer to it, is present everywhere. Any building, old or new, has crosses all over. Anywhere you go, you can SEE them.
So, one can say, is swastika. Many are Masonic symbols on money, for example.
Symbols are everywhere.
I think, OP, reason I balded what you said is this - it is not the shape of something.
IT IS WHAT YOU SEE IN SHAPE.
Your mind, via senses, sees cross as religious symbol. It will then single it out of any environment, no matter how "non religious" and "non christian" it is. Heck, you can go into a forest, place where nature absolutely does not care about any religion, and see - clearly! - many crosses from say crossed branches, trees, etc.
We see what we want to see.
It will take a planet remodeling to remove all "crosses" and why? It is a symbol only for one who wants to see it as such. Hence why worry? They won't let one hang a "cross" on a wall in a public building? Fine. Windows on that wall already have cross in form of glass frame for 4 pieces of glass, for example. Or, there are other forms of it all over that building anyway.
That's why I'm saying - it's a moot question. Everything is already "crossed" anyway, as much as it is covered in other symbols.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-16-2016, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
8,043 posts, read 23,786,054 times
Reputation: 9334
My problem with it, and yes, I do have one, is that preferential treatment is given to some religions over others. Why should the cross or the 10 commandments be approved, but other religious symbols be denied? They shouldn't be, and yet they sometimes are. And when they aren't, Christians are usually up in arms that there is a Swastika or an upside down pentagram are next to their holy cross, or even just the star of David, or a Coexist logo.

And to take it to the extreme, once you have a dozen or more, who picks which ones are in which location? Which are the most visible? Which are there not room for, so they get put in the back room? Do you draw lots? Do you rotate them out? Even if the original monument was paid for with private money, before too long, taxpayer dollars are going to have to be used for the logistics.

Allow all or deny all. Which means in order to not have chaos with a courthouse with 4,350 different religious symbols all vying for the best position, you deny all.

As for a cross on the roadside, I have no issue with that as long as it isn't distracting to drivers. And I have no issue whatsoever with a religious marker on individual tombstones, whether it is on government ground or not. What someone chooses to do on their, or a loved ones headstone is their personal decision.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-16-2016, 02:07 PM
 
1,294 posts, read 613,187 times
Reputation: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc2sc778 View Post
I have heard a number of Atheists say they don't care about "IN GOD WE TRUST" on money because the words mean nothing to them anyway. Why does it seem to be so different for a cross to some Atheists? Or is it a minority that has problems with this type of thing?
I as well am in the don't care boat. As long as I'm not paying for it, go for it. It's not gonna make a difference to me driving past it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top