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Old 12-20-2011, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,199,152 times
Reputation: 14007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Mr. Occultist, I don't think you will get any insight from us Atheists.

We don't believe in anything supernatural at all. You do believe in the supernatural.

That is huge difference with no middle ground.

Not necessarily. I'm a godless heathen but believe in many aspects of the "supernatural". While most paranormal claims are pure bunk, I think some paranormal events actually stem from currently unknown/misunderstood natural phenomenon.

There are ALWAYS shades of grey.

To the OP, though... don't buy the whole "knowing" argument... we have never trully "known" the whole story and while science is light-years ahead of religion, it's still incomplete and ultimately an insufficient tool for the job. Knowledge is a neverending progression, not a endpoint.

Of course that hardly means spiritualism and the occult are better ways to understand the universe, but it is an interesting subject nevertheless...
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:30 AM
 
63 posts, read 43,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayulita View Post
The OP does indeed present as entirely earnest and sincere, therefore curbing my surliness.
I thank you (and everyone else here) for being kind to me so far. All I ask is that people be polite to me (as I will be to them.) Rudeness, especially when it's uncalled for and unjustified, is something I disapprove of.

I am fine with people telling me they think my beliefs are silly/nonsense, all I request is that people not insult or be rude to me in the process. So far, no one has, and I'm very grateful for that, so thank you, all of you. I hope it will continue.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:35 AM
 
3,509 posts, read 5,175,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Not necessarily. I'm a godless heathen but believe in many aspects of the "supernatural". While most paranormal claims are pure bunk, I think some paranormal events actually stem from currently unknown/misunderstood natural phenomenon.

There are ALWAYS shades of grey.

To the OP, though... don't buy the whole "knowing" argument... we have never trully "known" the whole story and while science is light-years ahead of religion, it's still incomplete and ultimately an insufficient tool for the job. Knowledge is a neverending progression, not a endpoint.

Of course that hardly means spiritualism and the occult are better ways to understand the universe, but it is an interesting subject nevertheless...
While it galls me to even reference Donald Rumsfeld, I have to invoke the whole "known knowns, known unknowns etc." speech to respond. I form my opinions based on what I know NOW. When science adds other knowns to the knowledge base, I will adjust accordingly.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,199,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayulita View Post
While it galls me to even reference Donald Rumsfeld, I have to invoke the whole "known knowns, known unknowns etc." speech to respond. I form my opinions based on what I know NOW. When science adds other knowns to the knowledge base, I will adjust accordingly.
Isn't that kinda dishonest though?

For example, to say: "I know without a shadow of a doubt that nothing can go faster than the speed of light", until science almost inevitably says differently? It's the same general attitude as a fundie really.

In a couple hundred years, future humans will chuckle when they read our "understanding" of science, like we chuckle at midevil people who thought the world was flat and inhabited by faeries and sprites. We've got a LONG way to go yet...
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
603 posts, read 566,619 times
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Hello Spiritual_Occultist, welcome.

Just do what everyone else does - jump right in the threads and/or post your own.

-Agnostically yours, Annilyna.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:46 AM
 
3,509 posts, read 5,175,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Isn't that kinda dishonest though?

For example, to say: "I know without a shadow of a doubt that nothing can go faster than the speed of light", until science almost inevitably says differently? It's the same general attitude as a fundie really.

In a couple hundred years, future humans will chuckle when they read our "understanding" of science, like we chuckle at midevil people who thought the world was flat and inhabited by faeries and sprites. We've got a LONG way to go yet...
Did you not read what I wrote? I thought it was pretty clear. Nowhere did I use the term "without a shadow of a doubt".
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,199,152 times
Reputation: 14007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayulita View Post
Did you not read what I wrote? I thought it was pretty clear. Nowhere did I use the term "without a shadow of a doubt".
I read: "I believe what Science tells me and will change my mind when/if Science does"...
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:50 AM
 
3,509 posts, read 5,175,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I read: "I believe what Science tells me and will change my mind when/if Science does"...
And your point is....?
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:51 AM
 
63 posts, read 43,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
In a couple hundred years, future humans will chuckle when they read our "understanding" of science, like we chuckle at midevil people who thought the world was flat and inhabited by faeries and sprites.
I'm possibly throwing myself in at the deep end here, but I must admit that faeries and sprites are creatures that I believe it's possible may exist. I don't necessarily think they exist on our plane of existence, but I do believe there are other worlds/planes where such creatures are in existence. I've got a friend (same age as myself) who shares the same opinon as me.

One thing I don't believe, though, is that the world is flat.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
2,637 posts, read 10,937,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual_Occultist View Post
I personally don't think so, I think that the consciousness, as I refer to it, represents the best qualities of humankind. But this is just my own view, I may be right, I may be wrong.
So then, in your view, from whence arises those worst qualities of humanity? Demons? Demi-gods? Or are we only responsible for our own negative traits, but all good ones come from this "consciousness"?
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