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Old 02-08-2012, 06:15 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,938,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
My reasons are quite personal as probably many others'. It's not like I sat down one day and said I'm going to believe. It's a personal experience that changed me. I don't expect you to understand but maybe as you hear from others your view about the way in which someone believes may change.
I understand people believe due to personal revelation and feelings. I just don't find it a convincing or useful way to find out truth about the world. Our subjective experiences are easily shown to be unreliable compared to other more rigorous ways of investigating the world.

Quote:
I never made that statement.
So you're not trying to connect the facts that there are things which are outside of our ability to directly detect and the idea that a creator god is responsible for the known universe? If not, why connect the two ideas in your post?
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:28 AM
 
707 posts, read 572,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
No, but abiogenesis theory does, and while it doesn't have the mountain of evidence supporting it like the theory of evolution, it does at least have some evidence suggesting it's a very plausible theory, unlike creationism.
But something has to exist first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
No, it shows your limited thinking. You're the one that suggested anything complex must have a creator. To think that anything complex - including life - must have a creator is limited thinking. There is a very good video about this posted by Djuna that you seemed to have no rebuttal for.
I'm saying I believe in God and then I realize He created everything and not the other way around. I do not say God exists because I have no answers for it. Even though I believe in God I still can't "explain" everything about Him or His methods. At some point because I believe He exists I accept certain things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
Umm... Yes they did spring up on their own. All scientists did was simulate an environment they believed to be similar to early Earth and these complex organic molecules just started appearing. It's not hard to fathom that if the entire planet was like this, some very simple form of life or protolife may have popped up.
Again, something was in place first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
That supports my side of the argument more than your own. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I believe there are millions of stars in each galaxy and billions of galaxies in the known universe. It is also now believed that there is at least one planet around most of those stars. Therefore, even if the chances of a planet being hospitable to life and life just springing up on it are one in a quadrillion, it's still extremely likely that life would spring up somewhere in the universe, just as it did on Earth.
True but who created or how did it all become. God may have created millions of planets with life on them, who knows. But does that deny His existence...not to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
On the other hand, if a god created the universe, why would he make so much wasted space? It doesn't make sense.
How do you know it's wasted? Do you know the purpose for everything? Think about it. If a being is able to create all of this do you thing He would waste His time for nothing? lol
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:36 AM
 
707 posts, read 572,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
I understand people believe due to personal revelation and feelings. I just don't find it a convincing or useful way to find out truth about the world. Our subjective experiences are easily shown to be unreliable compared to other more rigorous ways of investigating the world.
True if you want to know what cells are in a flower or something, but as for everything being a deliberate creation there is no more truth in your beliefs than mine. Either could be true. And just like Love, if someone went to explain or convince you that it exists you might have a similar response, but if you yourself experienced it than you would not have any ambition or reason to convince anyone. You would live life accordingly and reap those benefits. And possibly share with people who have experienced the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
So you're not trying to connect the facts that there are things which are outside of our ability to directly detect and the idea that a creator god is responsible for the known universe? If not, why connect the two ideas in your post?
You mentioned different wavelengths of light and worshipping a God, I think in the other post. Not sure what that's about. As for this comment I would say that God is responsible for creating the "known and unknown" universe. It all exists for whatever reason whether we "know" it or not.
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
1,530 posts, read 2,605,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
But something has to exist first.
The universe existed first.

Quote:
I'm saying I believe in God and then I realize He created everything and not the other way around. I do not say God exists because I have no answers for it. Even though I believe in God I still can't "explain" everything about Him or His methods. At some point because I believe He exists I accept certain things.
So are you admitting you have no evidence to support your claims? It sure seems like you've been trying to come up with some all this time.

Quote:
True but who created or how did it all become. God may have created millions of planets with life on them, who knows. But does that deny His existence...not to me.
There's no reason to believe anyone created it. We don't know exactly why the universe exists, but science is at least working on it while religion just made up an answer and decided to call it a day.

Quote:
How do you know it's wasted? Do you know the purpose for everything? Think about it. If a being is able to create all of this do you thing He would waste His time for nothing? lol
If a being created the universe for life, he certainly didn't tune it very well for us. We could be taken out by a number of astronomical events as has happened in the past.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:56 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,938,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
True if you want to know what cells are in a flower or something, but as for everything being a deliberate creation there is no more truth in your beliefs than mine.
Why is this question off-limits to science?

Quote:
You mentioned different wavelengths of light and worshipping a God, I think in the other post. Not sure what that's about.
You were the one who tried to draw a relationship between us not being able to observe everything with our unaided senses and the idea that a creator god exists, so you tell us what it is about.

Quote:
As for this comment I would say that God is responsible for creating the "known and unknown" universe. It all exists for whatever reason whether we "know" it or not.
That's nice. Why should I believe you instead of thousands of other stories also backed up by zero evidence?
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,703 posts, read 1,892,523 times
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I have fewer moments of doubt about atheism than I ever did about my theism when I was a believing Christian. There was a constant, or, at the least, frequent, background of vague doubt that the Christian narrative was true. I rarely doubt the soundness of my lack of belief in theism, and if I ever do, then it is to merely wonder if there is some degree of sentience to matter that gives rise to consciousness, or an awe about the nature of reality.

I never find myself thinking that there might be a supernatural power that expects me to do or believe certain things. I guess I could entertain something like, 'we all are part of a simulated computer application' or something like a 'brain in a vat' but it's more of an intellectual acknowledgment that there's no way to be 100% sure that is not the case, rather than assenting to a certain creed of revealed religion or something.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:44 AM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,732,736 times
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I don't doubt my atheism but I do doubt the sanity of some people around here. The delusions are so rigid, their minds are so closed, they are so unwilling to even slightly contemplate they may be wrong.

As a christian I believed the bible (to my shame I know), but I never had some of these weird, intricate, detailed delusions about consciousness and god. How can people stray so far from conventional religion that they are now making up their own religion based upon nothing more than their imagination?

In my world that is called a psychosis.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Athens, Greece
526 posts, read 579,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
I don't doubt my atheism but I do doubt the sanity of some people around here. The delusions are so rigid, their minds are so closed, they are so unwilling to even slightly contemplate they may be wrong.

As a christian I believed the bible (to my shame I know), but I never had some of these weird, intricate, detailed delusions about consciousness and god. How can people stray so far from conventional religion that they are now making up their own religion based upon nothing more than their imagination?
I quite agree with the above.
One small detail though: atheists can be as close minded as believers because their dogma is “no gods ever existed” -immaterial or otherwise.

What would you say on that?
Where do you base your absolute atheism?
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:49 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 23,914,063 times
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When I witness the behaviors of some claiming to be religious, I seriously doubt they have any faith or belief in their gods.
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,365,377 times
Reputation: 4886
Djuna, I know a person who was told she was suffering from religion psychosis...she was very stunned, how dare anyone say that to her? I never talk religion to her but I'm sure I'd best stay away from that subject with her..
I read that some people suffering from bipolar disorder can have visions and the like during a manic period...
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