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Old 02-12-2012, 10:35 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,950,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtango View Post
I quite agree with the above.
One small detail though: atheists can be as close minded as believers because their dogma is “no gods ever existed” -immaterial or otherwise.

What would you say on that?
Where do you base your absolute atheism?
I don't know any atheist that is closed minded to evidence; theists have simply failed after thousand of years and billions of people searching to find any evidence to slightly even suggests there is a god.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Athens, Greece
526 posts, read 579,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
I don't know any atheist that is closed minded to evidence; theists have simply failed after thousand of years and billions of people searching to find any evidence to slightly even suggests there is a god.
Atheists have a problem. They do not like the Old Testament!
The Old Testament contains myths and thus myths should be no good. Myths are products of the imagination; just fairy tales with no value at all.

Then there is a test question: Why is it that Native Americans, Greeks, Sumerians and Indians share common mythological motifs?
Atheists answer: “Imagination! They are humans and so they all imagined the same stories about gods.”

Atheist cannot consent to the reality of the fact that Sumerian and Native American cultures sprang from an archaic common culture because in that archaic culture the gods would be the dominant figures.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:36 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,950,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtango View Post

Atheist cannot consent to the reality of the fact that Sumerian and Native American cultures sprang from an archaic common culture because in that archaic culture the gods would be the dominant figures.
Theists are incapable of recognizing that life on the planet creates similar experiences, floods, famine, pestilence, etc. etc. and every society has similar folklore from these similar experiences. To attribute these to a god is simply stupid.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:58 AM
 
2,665 posts, read 2,179,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
None of it appears to have any basis more real than the vagaries of your own imagination and fantasy... a faculty you appear to be in no shortage of.
Actually, that's not exactly true. Quantum physics is starting to paint a picture of a non-objective reality, which is to say reality is a simulation, which means our bodies don't actually exist except as some form of avatar within the simulation.

Evidence for that comes from the double-slit experiment, quantum entanglement, quantum tunneling, perfectly identical subatomic components, relativity, and other circumstantial evidence.

IF our reality is in fact simulated, that means that our sentient consciousness exists independently of this reality. That doesn't validate any religion or god concept, indeed I would think it discredits all of them. But it means something bigger is afoot.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,375 posts, read 11,705,189 times
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In the 1950’s I had perfect attendance - Sunday school, church, etc. But; that was the 1950’s - I grew and I had doubts. I could not understand how people could believe in a man and books that existed two thousand years ago. If God or his Son intervened then; why wasn’t he intervening now? It made no sense tom me. After experimenting with other Christian denominations; I eventually became an agnostic. Ten years later I became a atheist. Doubts lead me to where I am today and today I have fewer doubts than I ever had.

That does not mean that I do not have questions or my mind is closed. We have not even explored our whole world - we are only familiar with a fraction of our history. We don’t know if alternate realties really do exist? There are countless odds of other civilizations in our universe. We don’t even know if ours is the only universe or what existed before the universe? If we had some fantastic warp spaceships, that could explore the ends of our universe; I am sure we would encounter some civilizations that appeared to be god like (or they would simply eat us).

I think my biggest doubt today is whether we are any smarter or better than one celled life? We definitely have a very hard time planning a future. Limited resources and no population controls could unite us with our maker or our oblivion - maybe sooner than later.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:21 PM
 
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There is no evidence. No verifiable evidence, no circumstantial evidence, not even almost 30 years of being a christian produced any evidence. It was all a lie, all a delusion, all man made, created by man, for man.

Do you think I would throw away all those years of believing on a whim? I searched the scriptures, I read voraciously and my conclusion was what it was. I can now say I am 99% positive in my atheistic stance. The other 1% remains agnostic.

I am open to believing, I am not closed minded at all. But thus far it isn't looking good.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,361,885 times
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I too checked into it and talked to so many people from all over before discarding it all. Like I've said many times before, I always had doubts, even as a little kid but I still clung to it for years and when I got into my teens I started to really question eveything more and more. Close minded is one thing I'm not, and that goes for everything, not just religious matters. Not believing does not mean one is ignorant.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Athens, Greece
526 posts, read 579,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Theists are incapable of recognizing that life on the planet creates similar experiences, floods, famine, pestilence, etc. etc. and every society has similar folklore from these similar experiences. To attribute these to a god is simply stupid.
I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtango View Post
Atheists cannot consent to the reality of the fact that Sumerian and Native American cultures sprang from an archaic common culture because in that archaic culture the gods would be the dominant figures.
You just confirmed my assertion!

You know what you know:.. “similar experiences produce similar folklore which produce similar gods” without paying much attention to the fact that you are unaware of the folklore legends and myths involved.
All over the earth they imagined gods raping their women and killing their children because... it was in that way they chose to interpret the calamities and disasters that met them !!
Isn’t it a bit far fetched?

Theists and atheists are equally close minded!
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Old 02-13-2012, 02:16 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,278,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DentalFloss View Post
Actually, that's not exactly true. Quantum physics is starting to paint a picture of a non-objective reality, which is to say reality is a simulation, which means our bodies don't actually exist except as some form of avatar within the simulation.
While quantum physics is massively interesting and massively contrary to human expectations, I have read or seen little in it (outside some sensationalist news paper articles) to support any of the "Holograms" and "Avatars" stuff that is being assigned to it.

Those who do try to sell such interpretations do pretty much what you just did yourself. They list some stuff like "doubt slit experiments" and then leave. They never actually explain HOW the things they list support the "simulation" claims at all. They just list them and run.

I often point out that presenting evidence is a three part process:

1) State your claim precisely.
2) List the things you think are evidence of the claim.
3) Explain exactly how the things listed in 2 support 1.

But as we see with posts like your own a lot of people think it is a two step process:

1) State a claim
2) List some stuff and leave.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:56 AM
 
2,665 posts, read 2,179,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
1) State a claim
2) List some stuff and leave.
Well, as I have expounded upon it at length a number of times on this forum, I was hoping for brevity, but I will try to go into some detail without writing a book.

Double-slit experiment: It implies that reality is not objective because the results vary based upon whether or not a human consciousness makes (or does not make) a specific measurement at a specific point in the experiment. The variable results seem to indicate that sub-atomic particles do not exist as physical entities until/unless they are measured, rather they exist as calculated probability waves. A physical particle, if real, is always a physical particle.

Quantum Entanglement: Violates the speed of light, and implies that a background subroutine of some kind is controlling behavior, not actual physical variables.

Quantum Tunneling: When matter penetrates an inpenetrable barrier, there is a problem. Either the barrier is not truly inpenetrable (such as when helium escapes a balloon), or if it is, another explanation is necessary. When you have a genuinely inpenetrable barrier, the calculated probabilistic wave explanation works. To my knowledge, there is no other explanation.

Identical sub-atomic particles: Every electron in the universe is exactly like every other one. Not 99.9999% alike. EXACTLY alike. That makes no sense, unless there is an underlying subroutine that defines what an electron is.

Relativity: That time is variable (and it's indisputable that it is) makes no sense in an objective reality. It's easily explained in a calculated simulation.

Perhaps you still feel this is too brief or lacking in explanation, if so let me know, and I will expound further. But I didn't want to (nor do I have time at the moment) write a book.
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