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Old 03-07-2012, 08:50 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,978,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
More specifically they are what you refer to as delusions. However if God does exist than it would be you who is being deluded. I've accomplished so much with God in my life that if you believe it to be a delusion or crutch why should I care. My point is that for those of us who believe we believe from our hearts and for those who don't there is nothing they will see as evidence.
Based on the evidence (the lack of) it is not I suffering from a delusion.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:52 PM
 
39,206 posts, read 10,887,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
As is one truth amung believers: God has always existed or created Himself before the universe. No one can really understand this but some thing are accepted because we don't know any of that except that God existed first. Our belief is in our hearts and not our heads.
That's why it is not to be trusted without a bit of head as well. I have known people who were convinced all all sorts of things which went against all evidence and you simply could not persuade them otherwise.

What believers believe is irrelevant. Where the evidence points or does not point is relevant. Even a modicum of 'head' should show that to be true. I don't mind what you choose to believe. All I do is to counter claims that need to be countered and let people draw their own conclusions.

And I believe that people want to believe that their views are based on sound evidence and reasoning, even if you don't.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
1,530 posts, read 2,606,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
I've accomplished so much with God in my life that if you believe it to be a delusion or crutch why should I care.
What have you accomplished that an atheist couldn't?
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,782 posts, read 13,369,912 times
Reputation: 11310
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
What have you accomplished that an atheist couldn't?
Werd, I've accomplished a hell of a lot in my 28 years without god by my side, and it actually got a hell of a lot better as I walked further and further away from the notion of faith.

Religion is great for a lot of people; it's not for me.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
254 posts, read 161,421 times
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When I was a theist I had many doubts. I had doubts of there being an afterlife. I am happy now being an atheist. Less to think about/worry about some sky fairy the clouds.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:44 AM
 
707 posts, read 573,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Still not presenting any evidence? Proving my point again. You talk and you talk, but no evidence ever gets presented for a god.



Fraid not. Just try it some time. Take something you find very easy and present it to someone who finds it very hard.

Take mathematics for example. I find much of it easy. Calculus for example. Yet many people find Calculus massively complicated to understand.

Clearly they and I are looking at the same Calculus. So that is not changing. So what IS changing? The observer that is what. One observer looks and sees it as simple. Another looks and sees it as complicated.

QED, the complexity is a subjective attribute of the observer, not of Calculus.



Then take it up with them, not me. I have copied and pasted nothing. So you are now ignoring me and just harping on about people who have nothing to do with me. If someone copies and pastes something then pull them up on it. Why mention it to me?

As I mentioned evidence is not the same as proof. I have mentioned intelligent design and the complexity of life and the universe as evidence. How did it all get here and how is it so complex? I don't see any answers from you. This is evidence but one has to open their eyes to the possibility and not just see things with their 5 senses only. If you are truly interested in knowing God or how another can believe you can't restric yourself. A lot of logic points to a Creator.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:45 AM
 
707 posts, read 573,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
What have you accomplished that an atheist couldn't?
I'm not comparing to anyone else but speaking personally about my own life.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:47 AM
 
707 posts, read 573,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Werd, I've accomplished a hell of a lot in my 28 years without god by my side, and it actually got a hell of a lot better as I walked further and further away from the notion of faith.

Religion is great for a lot of people; it's not for me.

That is fair. However I am refering to a Creator God and not any religion. Unfortunatly a lot of people cannot make the separation.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:48 AM
 
707 posts, read 573,406 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist Liberal View Post
When I was a theist I had many doubts. I had doubts of there being an afterlife. I am happy now being an atheist. Less to think about/worry about some sky fairy the clouds.
Maybe you just don't like thinking.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:51 AM
 
707 posts, read 573,406 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
That's why it is not to be trusted without a bit of head as well. I have known people who were convinced all all sorts of things which went against all evidence and you simply could not persuade them otherwise.

What believers believe is irrelevant. Where the evidence points or does not point is relevant. Even a modicum of 'head' should show that to be true. I don't mind what you choose to believe. All I do is to counter claims that need to be countered and let people draw their own conclusions.

And I believe that people want to believe that their views are based on sound evidence and reasoning, even if you don't.
Irrelevant you say. Maybe not because the absolute truth may only be known in death. And we do have feelings for a reason. It is just as valid a decision as any. In fact it almost always takes the mind into consideration when we have a feeling or emotions concerning things.
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