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Old 03-08-2012, 06:59 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,286,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
As I mentioned evidence is not the same as proof.
I mentioned the same thing. The issue for me is you are offering NEITHER so the distinction is rather irrelevant. In fact you are proving my point with every post you make which is quite comical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
How did it all get here and how is it so complex?
The origin of the universe is an open question at this time. We have no answers. There is nothing wrong with that. We as a species are working on getting the answers.

It is people like theists however who play the "god of the gaps" card and if there is something we do not know they just pretend "god did it". However you have no evidence, argument, data or reasons to suggest there even is a god.

The important thing to note however is questions are not evidence. Questions are questions. If a question is not answered that does not mean you get to go "Therefore it was god".
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:02 AM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,743,488 times
Reputation: 20226
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Werd, I've accomplished a hell of a lot in my 28 years without god by my side, and it actually got a hell of a lot better as I walked further and further away from the notion of faith.

Religion is great for a lot of people; it's not for me.
I can relate to this. My life as a christian was fraught with fears of not being good enough. My life as an atheist is so much more peaceful. I don't feel the constant guilt anymore and that has allowed me to have a better life all around.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:09 AM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,923,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
As I mentioned evidence is not the same as proof. I have mentioned intelligent design and the complexity of life and the universe as evidence. How did it all get here and how is it so complex? I don't see any answers from you. This is evidence but one has to open their eyes to the possibility and not just see things with their 5 senses only. If you are truly interested in knowing God or how another can believe you can't restric yourself. A lot of logic points to a Creator.
The problem is that Intelligent Design and the complexity argument have been debunked on other threads.

1. While mutations occur randomly, natural selection is NOT a random process. Natural selection provides a directional process that acts upon mutations.
2. None of the *irreducibly complex* structures are structures that do not have plausible evolutionary pathways to their existence. For example, the evolution of the eye is well understood today though it was not understood when the first creationists proposed that the eye was irreducibly complex.
3. As science progresses, the arguments for the God of the Gaps gets smaller and smaller.

How can evolution account for the complexity of life on earth today? | BioLogos

More for other arguments on the home page
BioLogos
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
1,530 posts, read 2,607,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
I'm not comparing to anyone else but speaking personally about my own life.
Okay, so what have you accomplished as a theist that you wouldn't have been able to do if you were an atheist?
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,372,272 times
Reputation: 11312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
I can relate to this. My life as a christian was fraught with fears of not being good enough. My life as an atheist is so much more peaceful. I don't feel the constant guilt anymore and that has allowed me to have a better life all around.
Completely and totally agree with this.

There was a story on MSNBC today about a project that the compnay Symantec did where they purposely lost new smartphones in major cities to see how many were returned; each one had ample contact info, but also had files with names like "online banking," "passwords," "HR salary info," "private pictures," etc. Less than 20% of the phones were returned without anyone trying to get into any of the personal data that was totally irrelevant to their locating the phone's owner.

A few weeks back, I was in a cab in San Francisco and found a brand new iPhone in the backseat. I took it out, opened it up, opened the call log, saw that there was someone who the phone's owner had called about twenty minutes prior, and called them to tell them that I had their friend's phone and give them my number. I talked to the owner shortly after that and gave her my work address so she could pick it up the next day (she actually had wanted me to bring it to her, right then, after 1am, and initially got huffy when I told her I was going to sleep...). At this, I turned the phone off and put it in my bag. I never turned it back on so that she'd have battery life when she picked it up the next day. I never looked at her photos, apps, games, etc.

If we are to believe numbers that indicate that atheists make up less than 2% of the US population, then we can infer that most, perhaps all, of the phones in this study were picked up by people who believe in god. Even with god watching, the temptation to be an invasive, selfish person won out (hey, you can always pray forgiveness, right?) and ultimately less than half of the phones were returned.

I did what was indisputably "right," because I genuinely believe that it was the right thing to do. The threat of a god seeing me commit a sin doesn't pop into my mind because there is no god to see me do such a thing, and yet I did what I assume that god would have liked me to do inasmuch as it was the "right" thing to do. I don't expect a cosmic cookie for what I did, nor do I think that someday, after death, I'll be rewarded for this action. I just did it because it was a nice thing to do, with no ulterior motive.

Most of the atheists I've met over my life are of a similar mindset; they do good things because they're good people, free of any temptation. It does take strength to go against one of the most revered tenets of mainstream society (belief in god) and to keep your convictions in the face of outside pressure to re-adopt faith.

All that I really need to do if I ever have doubts at my lack of belief is look at the world around me, and what so many of god's followers have done and continue to do to eachother and the world around them.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:21 PM
 
707 posts, read 573,551 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I mentioned the same thing. The issue for me is you are offering NEITHER so the distinction is rather irrelevant. In fact you are proving my point with every post you make which is quite comical.



The origin of the universe is an open question at this time. We have no answers. There is nothing wrong with that. We as a species are working on getting the answers.

It is people like theists however who play the "god of the gaps" card and if there is something we do not know they just pretend "god did it". However you have no evidence, argument, data or reasons to suggest there even is a god.

The important thing to note however is questions are not evidence. Questions are questions. If a question is not answered that does not mean you get to go "Therefore it was god".
God is not there for convenience. Unfortunately most atheists are not even able to admit that the possibility exists. You just keep saying I have offered no evidence yet I've mentioned many things. Why don't you copy and paste those things. I guess you just don't want to admit it's possible. I'll go on the record to say that I don't know if God exists but I believe He does and my faith is strong enough to admit that. Is your non belief strong enough to admit it's possible He does?
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:29 PM
 
707 posts, read 573,551 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
The problem is that Intelligent Design and the complexity argument have been debunked on other threads.

1. While mutations occur randomly, natural selection is NOT a random process. Natural selection provides a directional process that acts upon mutations.
2. None of the *irreducibly complex* structures are structures that do not have plausible evolutionary pathways to their existence. For example, the evolution of the eye is well understood today though it was not understood when the first creationists proposed that the eye was irreducibly complex.
3. As science progresses, the arguments for the God of the Gaps gets smaller and smaller.

How can evolution account for the complexity of life on earth today? | BioLogos

More for other arguments on the home page
BioLogos
We are a complex organism...true? So it is only logical to assume that it took an intelligence to put us together. Therefore God.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:30 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,981,174 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
God is not there for convenience. Unfortunately most atheists are not even able to admit that the possibility exists. You just keep saying I have offered no evidence yet I've mentioned many things. Why don't you copy and paste those things. I guess you just don't want to admit it's possible. I'll go on the record to say that I don't know if God exists but I believe He does and my faith is strong enough to admit that. Is your non belief strong enough to admit it's possible He does?
Convenience? what could be more convenient that a god you believe you prove by making up basically anything you want as evidence.

No, gods are not possible, and by your own words you completely dismiss the infallible evidence you say you have provided when you say you don 't know if god exists.

Fairy tales are for children.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:34 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,981,174 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
We are a complex organism...true? So it is only logical to assume that it took an intelligence to put us together. Therefore God.
Perhaps in the world ignorance based on fairy tales, but in the real world evolution is responsible, and very capable.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:40 PM
 
707 posts, read 573,551 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
Okay, so what have you accomplished as a theist that you wouldn't have been able to do if you were an atheist?
My life changed so dramatically. As they say from black to white literally. You might say I could have done all that without God, but I didn't and I know in my heart how God has changed my outlook and created a new me. I'm sure there are many like me too so I'm not really so special in that regard.
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