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Old 03-13-2012, 02:15 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
1,492 posts, read 1,424,158 times
Reputation: 861

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
There are billions of other stars. Some of them have planets.
Billions hell. Wikipedia says there are 200 to 400 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy alone and there are around 200 billion galaxies in the observable universe. Assuming the Milky Way is an average galaxy, that's 40 to 80 sextillion stars (that's 80,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) and scientists think most stars have at least one planet. And that's just the observable universe, it's possible the universe is even infinite in which case it would most certainly be true that there's life elsewhere in it. But we don't know that it's infinite so we can't say that for sure.

But like you said, it's just a probability that life exists elsewhere. It's still a lot more likely than a god though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
Funny for so many to say it would be foolish to believe the atom existed before there was proof. But it did. So who is the real fool the believer or non-believer.
The believer was. The nonbeliever neither says atoms are real nor that they aren't real. Before the atom was discovered, this was the appropriate stance. The believer was only correct by coincidence. If someone went racing down the freeway at 180 MPH on a sportbike among traffic, would you say he wasn't a fool if he lived?

Also, I'll note that when the atom was conceived as a theory, it was said to be the most elementary particle of matter. We now know that isn't true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
Religion is not the same as believing in a Living Being who Created everything. And just because I have my evidence and you are unable to see it does not make it any less real or valid to me.
So you're deist?
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:59 AM
 
Location: South Wales, Yes, I'm, back!
16,052 posts, read 8,103,152 times
Reputation: 2673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
And long before the Greeks people theorized about a Living Being who Created everything.
And threw lightning bolts and caused storms and earthquakes, because they had no facts to suggest any other mechanism. We know better now. Well, some still seem to think that an invisible being sends storms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
Religion is not the same as believing in a Living Being who Created everything.

Quite true. While we do not see convincing evidence for a Sorta god who created everything, we neither believe not logically rule out some such thing. Religion and man - made gods is of course something we are more definite about. I think we are aware of the distinction.

Quote:
And just because I have my evidence and you are unable to see it does not make it any less real or valid to me.
I'm sure. All we do is pose the counters to the illogical or just arguable claims put forward for goddunnit creation. Just to provide the reasons why we don't believe. We don't mind what you believe, just so such arguable claims for creation are not allowed to pass as though there was no answer. And I believe that we have seen to very best of such arguments and they don't wash clean enough.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:13 AM
Status: "driving with aloha" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Heck
3,252 posts, read 2,615,819 times
Reputation: 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
And just because I have my evidence and you are unable to see it does not make it any less real or valid to me.
Other theists can't see your evidence either and that's why y'all are always fighting among yourselves.

Last edited by Tantalust; 03-13-2012 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:13 AM
 
707 posts, read 277,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
It was not a belief (fairy tale), it was a theory, based on observations of chemical reactions and the conservation of matter.
Now you say that. But a thousand years ago no one even knew anything about it. It's just to say that things do exist that we are not aware of.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:14 AM
 
707 posts, read 277,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantalust View Post
Other theists can't see your evidence either and that's why y'all are always fighting among yourselves.
Generalization. I'm not fighting with anyone...even you.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:20 AM
 
707 posts, read 277,479 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
And threw lightning bolts and caused storms and earthquakes, because they had no facts to suggest any other mechanism. We know better now. Well, some still seem to think that an invisible being sends storms.




Quite true. While we do not see convincing evidence for a Sorta god who created everything, we neither believe not logically rule out some such thing. Religion and man - made gods is of course something we are more definite about. I think we are aware of the distinction.

I'm sure. All we do is pose the counters to the illogical or just arguable claims put forward for goddunnit creation. Just to provide the reasons why we don't believe. We don't mind what you believe, just so such arguable claims for creation are not allowed to pass as though there was no answer. And I believe that we have seen to very best of such arguments and they don't wash clean enough.
Unfortunately the idea that if someone believes in God it is a specific one. Like one who created everything in 6 days ,etc. But there are some who feel God has put these things in place for evolution to happen as it did. So even when science says that we evolved from something it doesn not rule out that the very start came from a Creator. Just as we start out from a microscopic cell and we grow to the human being we are. That is Creation for you. We don't just come into existance as a full grow or developed human being.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:25 AM
 
707 posts, read 277,479 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post

The believer was. The nonbeliever neither says atoms are real nor that they aren't real. Before the atom was discovered, this was the appropriate stance. The believer was only correct by coincidence. If someone went racing down the freeway at 180 MPH on a sportbike among traffic, would you say he wasn't a fool if he lived?

Also, I'll note that when the atom was conceived as a theory, it was said to be the most elementary particle of matter. We now know that isn't true.



So you're deist?
So if someone has an instinct that tells them something even if the proof isn't 100% and it is true they are a fool? I'll be a fool anytime then.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:51 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
10,014 posts, read 8,519,288 times
Reputation: 6150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
Now you say that. But a thousand years ago no one even knew anything about it. It's just to say that things do exist that we are not aware of.
BTW, the history of science reveals that as better tools of observation and detection are invented by humans, more details about the natural world are discovered.

Tools are the key, and most of scientific progress is about fine tuning previous knowledge.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 03-13-2012 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,465 posts, read 5,299,105 times
Reputation: 2727
I know I'm kind of jumping in way late in the thread here, but to the OP: No, because to me being an Atheist isn't something I can doubt, it's simply a position taken based on the evidence presented to me, it's not something I can or cannot doubt.

A better question, in my opinion would be "Do you accept that you might be wrong?" In which case, the answer is yes, but I wouldn't mistake that for doubt.

I think a big difference, at least for me, between my position of being an atheist and that of the average religious person is that I don't consider the atheism to define me in any way, it's a result of my thinking, not what shapes my thinking, and I don't really doubt that result any more than I doubt that 1+1=2, but I accept that I'm not all knowing, and I accept that future information could prove me wrong (though I don't think it's likely), and I'm completely ok with that.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:12 AM
 
16,310 posts, read 14,822,211 times
Reputation: 7988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad View Post
Now you say that. But a thousand years ago no one even knew anything about it. It's just to say that things do exist that we are not aware of.
A thousand years ago, when much was not known, superstition would very likely have seemed more acceptable. But much has been learned since then, perhaps you should try and catch up with what we know today.
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