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Old 04-18-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Queensland, Australia
48 posts, read 38,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
No. Reality is the stuff that doesn't go away when you stop believing in it.
No, what I said was that Reality can change even though you keep believing in it.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Queensland, Australia
48 posts, read 38,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
A delusion is a false belief or opinion that is resistant to reason when confronted with facts, so yes I do believe it is delusional thinking. Of course, if new facts come to light that refutes this, I am willing to change my opinion.
How many so called "facts" have been disproved with the advent of more sophisticated test methods, introduction of more variables, etc etc etc.?

The World was Flat and women who floated were Witches and Man Can't Fly - fact, at the time based on perspective and experience and a few other motives. In hindsight this was extremely "delusional thinking" but considered fact at the time.

The fact that you are willing to change your opinion if new facts are presented is all I was looking for, Thanks
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
18,357 posts, read 20,418,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasaga View Post
The fact that you are willing to change your opinion if new facts are presented is all I was looking for, Thanks
I think pretty much all atheists and agnostics would do this.

It's how most of us have reached the positions on God we have now.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Queensland, Australia
48 posts, read 38,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Exactly, I consider religious people "Godchodriacs." Like "hypochondriacs," they can produce proof of something that isn't there, they believe it, their life is surrounded by it. It continues as long as the thought is constant and practiced behavior is evident.


"Patients with hypochondriasis often are not aware that depression and anxiety produce their own physical symptoms that might be mistaken for signs of a serious medical disease. For example, people with depression often experience changes in appetite and weight fluctuation, fatigue, decreased interest in sex and motivation in life overall. Intense anxiety is associated with rapid heart beat, palpitations, sweating, muscle tension, stomach discomfort, and numbness or tingling in certain parts of the body (hands, forehead, etc.).[citation needed]
Some people suggest that hypochondriasis is a "mild form" of paranoid schizophrenia, as patients tend to show a paranoid framework in which the target is their body. Also, the persistent paranoid feeling about illness can be regarded as delusion from reality. Patients with hypochondriasis have shown a remarkable response to atypical antipsychotics medication, but much research needs to be done in this field."
Hypochondriasis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Showing a remarkable response to medication isn't surprising - it puts the patient into a different state of reality, but which reality, medicated or unmedicated, is the greater delusion.

I totaly agree with your reference in the power of the mind to create something that isn't there - so where is the research and evidence to prove the boundaries of what the mind is capable of. This field also requires much more study.

The fact that a Hypnotist can get seemingly reasonable and intelligent people to dance around a stage and act like a chicken would suggest that some minds are far stronger than others, and the fact that these things work through the power of suggestion doesn't negate the fact that it's all part of the mind.

So again I state that we can't write everything off as being delusional - is the chicken dancer delusional in thinking they are a chicken or is the Hypnotist delusional in believing he can make people bend to his will, or is it both, or is it the spectator that's delusional and it never happened, reality is based on the perspective and experience of the individual who's reality it is.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Queensland, Australia
48 posts, read 38,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I think pretty much all atheists and agnostics would do this.

It's how most of us have reached the positions on God we have now.
I'd like to think the same thing, unfortunately I think there are as many fanatically "No God" as "All God" and that is just as dangerous.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:47 PM
 
2,649 posts, read 3,499,663 times
Reputation: 7057
Haven't read all the posts.

No. I am an atheist and I don't ever have doubts.

But sometimes I am envious of people that believe in God. It makes sense to me why faith, the church, the church community/peers can be so helpful in times of crises, and support during daily life. And why truly religious people are happier. How wonderful to think that the best is yet to come in the afterlife..... when you are dying of cancer.....or your child is born with a terrible incurable disease.

Last edited by sfcambridge; 04-18-2012 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:59 AM
Status: "It seems the Block has been taken off. Thank you" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: S. Wales.
42,608 posts, read 12,141,529 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasaga View Post
No, what I said was that Reality can change even though you keep believing in it.
What - you mean that we keep changing our perception of reality? That's true enough, but Reality itself is reliable enough and all that changes is what we learn about it. Really, ever since the Geocentric system was replaced by a solarcentric system, the work or Newton, Einstein and Hawkins is all still valid and workable, though we are finding out new and often unsettling facts about what we always thought of as 'reality' until some scientists have trouble saying what reality is.

It is because reality is predictable reliable that we can accommodate Quantum mechanics, divergency principle, matter being as near nothingness as makes no difference and the possibility that our whole universe is just a 2d holographic projection.

Whatever it is, it works, reliably and predictable, and to try to to use string theory and dark matter or particles that appear to exceed the speed of light as some way of hinting that science might be wrong about everything (whether or not that was what you had in mind ) is just another theist trick to try to get rid - in one wonderful flood of denial - of all that pesky evidence that God is not actually necessary and probably doesn't even exist.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,471,855 times
Reputation: 4890
just because they find they made a mistake in science, does not mean a mistake was made about the non-existence of a god. I bet a hundred years from now loads of scientific discoveries will prove to be wrong or fake. Just like the Turin shroud and the blood in Bruges is proven to be fake... But science will always prove things. Unlike the biblical stories, who are more and more useless as time goes by.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:03 AM
 
13,515 posts, read 14,758,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
That is, doubts about your atheism? Ever?
No.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,471,855 times
Reputation: 4890
Religions may give some form of comfort to people in terrible situations but I still find more comfort in reality. Everytime something happened to me, it made me more sure there was no god. Life is unfair for everyone, it depends what's important to you or on your situation. Someone who is not married will never go through divorce but may feel terribly alone and both can be seen as unfair...even with the help and support of religion and belief, you still have to get through tough times alone, by yourself. You have to do the work.
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