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Oh and I would also add, that life itself is its own purpose. Life isn't just a noun, it is a process in and of itself, and all biological things strive to maintain it. It isn't as if people who have no sex drive or ability to reproduce for whatever reason wish to keel over and die.
that's very true lkb0714, and religion went completely wrong there in telling people they have to go and reproduce, those who wish to not have children or who can't have them for biological reasons must really feel terrible and not quite accepted.. and then there are some who should not reproduce who do so anyway because they figure they have to!
Oh and I would also add, that life itself is its own purpose. Life isn't just a noun, it is a process in and of itself, and all biological things strive to maintain it. It isn't as if people who have no sex drive or ability to reproduce for whatever reason wish to keel over and die.
Oh and I would also add, that life itself is its own purpose. Life isn't just a noun, it is a process in and of itself, and all biological things strive to maintain it. It isn't as if people who have no sex drive or ability to reproduce for whatever reason wish to keel over and die.
I think the best label for reproduction is a biological goal. It's necessary in order to perpetuate life and to keep one's genes in the gene pool, but someone who dies without reproducing hasn't necessarily lived a meaningless life.
Also, purpose seems to suggest that you were conceived with a particular intention in mind, whether that intention be by your parents or a deity. Maybe there are some people who have a purpose, like a prince may have the purpose of ruling over a country when his father dies, but most people have no such purpose.
I've always been firmly convinced that we are biologically programmed to want sex, and the reproduction part is built in as a side effect for the species. After all, people who cannot reproduce, are finished reproducing, don't wanna reproduce, all still want sex.
I've always been firmly convinced that we are biologically programmed to want sex, and the reproduction part is built in as a side effect for the species. After all, people who cannot reproduce, are finished reproducing, don't wanna reproduce, all still want sex.
We are programmed to want sex, and that programming encourages reproduction, but it also has an emotional function as well, as it aids in establishing bonds which are important not only for emotional stability, but also for the all important biological goal of raising our young. Even if one cannot reproduce or are finished reproducing, that need is still there because of the emotional bonds that are formed.
That's the problem. People use beliefs to answer their questions rather than consider the questions first and base their belief on the answers. That is the only way of getting the horse and cart the right way round, straining the bathwater for any sign of a baby and not believing something until there's evidence for it rather than believing a particular something without evidence until it is disproven - or whichever brain- bamboozling analogy the theist wishes to use.
But for many of us who believe we do feel this is the correct answers. No one knows how we came into existance. I happen to believe we were all a creation of this God, and everything is. I see the world and universe as a creation. I see the depth and beauty and believe this to be true. Scientists can only speculate but I have a firm belief, for right or wrong.
I can tell you that theism {Christianity, Islam, et al; as in: blindered faith} are NOT a prerequisite to enjoying life or to the elusive goal of "finding a meaning for one's existence!!!". I often wonder however, just why is a "meaning" a mandatory element of living?
I'd say it might be a prerequisite conclusion and guiding rule-set for those who feel lost, or who are philosophically bereft, and therefore aimlessly "wandering" in the ruins of their minds. Some are like that, but obviously (ahem..) some are not.
Can't we all just enjoy life, exposing our curiosity and natural intellect to whatever new information comes along, but without some preconceived or brain-implanted dogmatic strictures coupled with a total lack of logical objectivity?
For myself, I'm really enjoying life, except when rabidly dogmatic theists try to tell me that, as an atheist, I MUST therefore [yah jist gotz to luv that conclusitory word, huh?] be culturally & socially lonely, ethically isolated and philosophically stagnant. Not to mention, that as a career scientist, I'm inherently biased and Evilâ„¢.
But for many of us who believe we do feel this is the correct answers. No one knows how we came into existance. I happen to believe we were all a creation of this God, and everything is. I see the world and universe as a creation. I see the depth and beauty and believe this to be true. Scientists can only speculate but I have a firm belief, for right or wrong.
Everyone can only speculate. Scientists admit that it is mainly speculation. Only Theists insist their speculations are true. Scientists at least stick with the evidence and understand that their sense of depth and beauty is entirely subjective and aesthetic and signifies nothing. Only Theists present this as evidence for their beliefs and then regard these beliefs as sound enough to base a worldview on.
this has obviously got to be unsound thinking and beliefs without any valid evidence. I never have any doubts about that at least.
But for many of us who believe we do feel this is the correct answers. No one knows how we came into existance. I happen to believe we were all a creation of this God, and everything is. I see the world and universe as a creation. I see the depth and beauty and believe this to be true. Scientists can only speculate but I have a firm belief, for right or wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
Wow man relax. I have said no such thing to you.
Kudos as to what you said, AREQUIPA! Then, Vansdad makes his absolute claim: "Scientists can only speculate but I have a firm belief, for right or wrong.". quite the comparison, for sure.
You obviously don't grasp how science and the SI work, do you, Vansdad? You cannot place scientific "speculation" alongside your "firm belief" in positions of equality of validity. For one very key element, scientific "speculation" as you denigrate it, is only the beginning part, never the end-point. We scientists call it "the hypothesis" for a good reason, and it is already the hopefully well-thought out speculative (as in: preliminary guessing) part of that question.
But what then follows is, as I hope you do know & understand, the relentless, repetitive and peer-reviewed part, where the results, if they show some promise, are then revised, better detailed and re-focused. Then repeated quite often by other independent research teams, possibly on the other side of the globe, with potentially newer, more precise equipment. And fully independent of some Evil™ payola and buy-outs. Then, through this iterative and relentless process, some very supportable conclusions are arrived at. They are no longer "speculative, guess-work nor inconclusive". They also beat the heck out of a blind acceptance, faith-based version, based on the writings of an ancient multiple-translation book now proven, in every case that we examine, to be technically wanting to say the least.
During the exact same time-frame, the rote-chanting crowd has done, essentially nothing to further validate their "firm belief", so it stands as it did before, unsupported, ambiguous and hard to understand, especially when it's been re-translated and revised as to content & intent, so many times. But as well, in light of newfound evidence, it's most often also found to be sorely lacking in terms of it's believability.
My 96 yr old mother-in-law recently passed away, God rest her lovely soul. She and I used to get into "charming" little partly for fun, but sometimes heated, discussions about what she was "taught" in Sunday School way back in the '40s. For example, she enjoyed and firmly believed in the Noah's Ark fable, of two of each; little zebras, elephants, monkeys and such, daintily prancing up onto a nice safe barge for "just a few months!", and then later traipsing off that now stinking, offal-encrusted, water-logged & listing barge, onto the now-saline-killed ecosystem (hence no palatable vegetative food nor potable water for anyone) to happily and gainfully repopulate the entire globe. All from an initial point up on a snow-covered mountain in Turkey. <Coffee spurting out of my nose...>
She simply did not want to listen to or even considerthe truth about how this is an ecological impossibility. It remains a rather poorly made metaphor or fable, suitable only for non-critical child thinkers, and my scientific evaluations, carefully and politely stated to her {she WAS my MoL, after all...}, deeply offended her childhood fantasies, those which she desperately wanted to cling to. Otherwise, what is left for those whose lives depend on these charming old-tyme legends? Nothing, that's what. Nothing.
And that, my friends, is the definition of being frightened back into the fold. (Ever notice how sheep cannot stand to be separated from the flock-huddle congregation, esp. @ night, when the vampires/coyotes howl?)
And that howling? That'd be us truth howlers. AWhhooooooooooooooooooooo
Last edited by rifleman; 01-30-2012 at 11:47 AM..
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] be culturally & socially lonely, ethically isolated and philosophically stagnant. Not to mention, that as a career scientist, I'm inherently biased and Evilâ„¢.
