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Old 01-10-2012, 06:45 PM
16,684 posts, read 14,144,449 times
Reputation: 20637


Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Except MANNERS tells us to NEVER discuss religion or politics. Therefore the problem of "manners" is the one of the person bringing it up in the first place. Usually NOT the atheists.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:58 PM
Location: El Paso, TX
3,314 posts, read 3,890,536 times
Reputation: 2577
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I have no idea what you are trying to say here??
Simply that very often in life people do make decisions based on very limited knowledge and even with information that may not seem logical. Have you ever heard of what some people may call it "gut instinct" even though things may not make sense, logic, or seem irrational? I have and many have. I will venture to guess you have also. I get the feeling you will deny it though.
When it comes to the issue of religion some people may not fully inderstand things with religion. They may try and have a lot of questons but something tells them it is right for them to follow and believe religion. You do not, great. I am happy for you too.

Are you trying to say that being impulsive for a single act is the same thing as being religious?


Making a bad choice is the same thing as having an religious belief based on fairytales?
No, I am not trying to say that.
No, "bad" is a nebulous term. Bad for what? To you? How do you know it is a bad choice? How is it bad for someone the decides to believe in religion? It is somewhat humorous to me because you sound just like religious guy saying not believing in religion is a bad choice, just on the other side of the issue. There are always the "I am right" types in any issues with no willingness to hear anything else.

Ya, NO.

Logic is a philosophical methodology that at its very core is REPEATABLE (which is why it is frequently called a SCIENCE) and is not based on personal experience.

If someone cannot show the logic in religion, and so far all the believers in the word have not, then it is not based on "logic".
Here you go, doing the same thing. All the believers? How do you know? Wow! I missed the test on that one? Came you provide me the data on that asssetion?
Again, you sound just like the other side with the same type of comments. Logic?
However, I reiterate that my focus is not so much to show religion as logical or not. If you go back to my first reply I simply mention the attitude and disdain towards people that simply express their views in life, in this case religion. I do see a double standard very often. Many logical types would show no disdain to even ideas they may not agree on so many other areas of knowledge in life. However, mention religion. Oh my God! (LOL no pun intended), fire comes out of eyes, it is not problem to be a jerk, rude, disdain, etc. Politeness is out the window. That is my focus. I am not saying not to respond with forcefull assertiveness if necessary if some religious nut tries to shove his views on you. Believe me, I will be by your side.

Fine but it isn't reason or LOGIC. It is completely made up and irrational to believe in something you cannot see, measure, or even prove exists. Which is why FAITH is required.
I am not trying to show whether religions is logical or not. Read above again.
However, it is interesting you mention faith. Actually, the Bible in Hebrew 11:1 does give a defintion of the word faith. I did some research and from what I it does require evidence. It was interesting when I read on that word. It does require evidence to believe.

Many? There is clear, measurable correlation between education level and atheism. Basically the more intelligent or educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. Probably not causative but still interesting.

Second, your "idea" is a fundamentally logical fallacy. Just because some (not many) PhDs are believers does not mean anything. Should the fact that MOST illiterates are believers be used to show how "stupid" religion is? No.

Same for the "happiness" factor. Children believe wishing makes something happen. It makes them "happy" does that mean they should continue to believe that or should the move on to reality where they can actually work to get what they want?
Yes, many. As far as your correlation, irrelevant to the point I have stated above already.
As far as the fallacy, again, I was not trying to prove whether religion logical or not, irrelevant.
The happiness point is also irrelevant. You are reading too much into my messages. I repeat, read above what my original focus has been. However, it seems that anything that simply addresses religion becomes a mental block and all you can see is as if I am trying to prove religion right or logical.

Not of a religious nature no. Ever.
OK, we differ here. Nothing wrong with that either. Some do and I do not see anything wrong with that.

You would be wrong. I never bring up my atheism EVER.

Same as above.

Again, can't understand what you are trying to say.

Bad wording, sorry. Simply saying you may share your views in other areas, nothing wrong if you do with atheism also. I welcome that just as I may welcome people sharing religion with me. I do not exclude any. You do not, OK. Nothing wrong with that.

Where did I say that? Seriously, please do not make things up.

Political views, or other views that are based on IGNORANCE or MADE UP, I will have exactly zero respect for. Ask that spirtiual person who wants to discuss things that go booga booga in the night. Equally full of made up crap as religious beliefs.
I never said you said anything. I am simply addressing a general attitude.
We differ then. Even ignorance can teach something. Manure can be used as fertilizer, correct? Apparently it has some type of value.

Hey you think you should respect beliefs like the right to molest children, beat women, subjugate other races, go ahead. But that belief of yours, makes me think very little of you.
Now, now. You are twisting things. You now made a statement of fact. It amazes me that someone that wants to use logic uses this type of emotional states, actually, some type of logic fallacy, I think.
How do you know I "Think...(I) should respect...."? That is why I call it an emotional statement because you now label me in some form. If you think that is what I believe, why not ask? Just as you react this way I see you react toward others regarding religion, emotionaly. Is it not the logic step to ask me if that if i believe in those things? I am surprised coming from someone having such high and strict adherence to being logical.
Even though you portrayed me in such low view, I do not see you as such though. You are just as human as all of us and you let your emotions get the best of you and resort to those type of comments.

However, it is interesting about the comment on child molesters. I am a trained Rape and Sexual Assault Victim advocate and twice a month I volunteer to be on call to go to the hospital to attend victims. It is humorous that you label me with having the beliefs you claim I have. Actually, when I took the course to become a victim advocate they covered the subject how there are studies and research on why people behave in such way in a way that is not emotional. It is necessary to keep objectivity on even a subject like this. So from my view it is good to see why people act that way. I am not saying I agree or believe it is right as you emotionaly said. There is an agency that deals with child molesters and those others you mention in how they can be helped. Do you know that pedophilia can be labeled as sexual orientation? It is an interesting subject. A good book to read by the American Psychological Association. It is titled "Pedophilia and Sexual Offending Against Children". It is some very interesting reading.

I share an experience you reminded me of. First of all, I clarify that I love education and thirst for knowledge. I am very inquisitive and I do not care how ignorant someone may be, I an open to learn from that individual. However, I have seen in life how people that value knowledge so much to the point of getting a mental block.
A long time ago I used to work in construction as an electrician. I remember something I witnessed. An engineer on site wanted to stop a point on the ceiling based on a point on the floor. He asked for a plumb bob. There was not one around. He wanted to get the answer and was asking all of us if we had one. Suddenly a bricklayer simply got a ladder, picked up a rock, climbed up the ladder let it drop from the point of reference on the ceiling. When it hit the floor he said "There is the point". The engineer did trust the bricklayer. He left and later came back with a plumb bob and find out that the bricklayer was right. Sometimes people get so stuck up with education, logic, rationality to the point that end up with a mental block not wanting to hear or consider anything else.
I had a similar experience with another engineer when I was in Dessert Storm but the point is the same. Take care.
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