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Old 01-14-2012, 07:32 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,981,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
What does the bold part even mean?

And what exactly is my "ilk"?
It's a typo, bucko, the word should have been severe.

Your 'ilk'............. is it the word itself you don't understand, or do you not recognize your own agendas?
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:09 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,988,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
But that isn't true at all.

There isn't one single priest in the entire Roman Catholic Church as knowledgeable as I am, in the knowledge that truly matters.
Well aren't you very confident of yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
They only know part of the story. They've never read the hundreds of older texts, which predate the existence of Abrahm, and on which all of the pre-history contained in Genesis is based.
There are many priests who don't place that much emphasis on Genesis. And really you know that no priest, in the entire world, has read all the ancient text you have? You can really say that with confidence?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
As an analogy, someone writes a book on a series of events, and in doing so, draws on and synthesizes older historical works documenting the same series of events.

Why would you not want to read those older sources?

Know and understand that I do not ridicule and condemn x-tians for not having read those older sources on which the biblical stories in Genesis are drawn, rather I ridicule and condemn them because they refuse to read and study them.
Give me the names and I'll look them up. I can't promise to read them all, I don't have unlimited time, but I'll see what I can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And they refuse, because they are filled with fear, and fear is ignorance.
Uh-huh. Well that might be true in many cases. I was originally nervous when you talked of these things, but I'm not so much now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You've got that backwards. Theism is predicated on ignorance and blind faith, while atheism is predicated on truth.
Wow, the arrogance of this is truly mind-boggling.

Atheism isn't predicated on truth at all. At best it's predicated on the idea that all that can be known is all that can be discovered by us via natural means. Atheism ends up as a negation of the idea there is Truth or that Reality is fully knowable because humans aren't omniscient or omnipresent. You do not know "The Truth." (And for the record neither do I) I can 100% guarantee that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I know about blind faith.

I remember reading through Wikileaks and seeing how Obama illegally over-threw the Honduran government in July 2009. It was 20 years earlier, to the day, that I was tromping through the Honduran jungle with my battalion escorting some suits around, going village to village and terrorizing villagers into voting for the US-backed puppet-dictator.

And why?

To protect you? Me? My family? America?

No.

For money.

Because some 60-odd very wealthy families in the US who have had that wealth for decades and decades think they are special and that they should enjoy special privileges, and even have a right to amass more money and wealth by any means possible.

So I was betrayed by the US Government and misused as an instrument of war and power by some very wealthy families and all because I blindly put my trust and faith in the US Government.

Not any more.

I cannot undo what we did to those poor villagers, who were just people trying to make do the best they could, but I can do all that I am able to ensure it doesn't happen again and that people understand how and why things are the way they are.
I'm sorry for your bad life experiences, but there are no villages on my conscience. I'm not enslaving anyone or killing anyone either. And I don't go doing things just because my parents or priest say so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
On the contrary, I am more knowledgeable and more informed, precisely because I abandoned the shackles of religion and its superstitious beliefs.
This is inane posturing, I think copying it is refutation enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Well, now you're grasping at straws. You cannot, of course, provide any evidence to support such a bizarre claim.
The claim that most things in the Universe you will always be ignorant of? That's not a bizarre claim, it's a demonstrable fact. Even if you travel at the speed of light you'll never see more than a tiny portion of the Universe. Unless you think our instrumentation is much better than I think is even possible most of the Universe will be unknown to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I can see better, because my mind is not trapped by some parochial vision.
Oh balderdash, of course your mind is trapped in a parochial vision. It's trapped in the body of a human. Limited to the sensations and perceptions of a human. Limited to the tiny speck of dirt humans live on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I have no interest in that. What happened before the Big Bang, assuming there ever was a Big Bang, has no bearing on me. It will not alter my lot in life.
So you're not against ignorance, you just want "My kind of ignorance." You're okay with being ignorant of things that "will not alter my lot in life."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Which is why christians hide in their make-believe world cocoon.
Christians are still "in the world." I'm not exactly hiding by being here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Which frightens you more, the thought of no god, or the thought of no after-life?
"Frightens" is probably not the right world. And I admit I'm not sure. No God would probably sadden me more, but no afterlife might be more unnerving I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Oh, no, I'm very afraid of people like you.

You catholics kept my family ancestors in slavery for nearly 600 years working on papal estates.

You will never do that again. Ever.

And it isn't the fear of slavery, it's fear for the many innocent people who would die preventing people like you from abusing others.
Oh good, I'm glad we agree you're as ignorant as frightened as I am. Just in different ways.

I still don't think atheism is a cult, but your atheism might be close to a kind of cultism.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:32 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 13,314,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
Honestly, to be fair, what exactly is a cult?
[URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult"]Cult | Define Cult at Dictionary.com[/URL]

Going by that definition, atheism doesn't qualify. Atheists don't worship, nor do we venerate either a person or a common ideal. We simply don't believe in deities.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:38 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,748,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
There are only three options to explain our existence, one is to believe in God, another is agnosticism which states their may be a God but I haven't found proof. The last is atheism where one will state they know God does not exist.



This is not just a non- belief in God but a willful denial of his existence. Agnosticism is where one admits that they do not know if God exists, not having the proof or that there is a personal God who has always existed.
you must have never heard from scholarly agnostics who were deeply interested in agnosticism. agnosticism is not really a statement of how one is "missing" some information. its a confesion of the natural sentient condition. true agnostics say: agnosticism is true.

these scholarly agnostics have deeply studied the grave corruption which is religion... and are not as the lay secular agnostics who simply wish to state a current state of belief.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:25 AM
 
16,646 posts, read 14,098,718 times
Reputation: 20595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
It's a typo, bucko, the word should have been severe.

Your 'ilk'............. is it the word itself you don't understand, or do you not recognize your own agendas?
The only "agenda" I had in this thread was to show how asinine the OP was in claiming that atheism is a cult and then claiming that ONLY agnosticism is logical.

I am not the one who cannot admit they made a mistake here.

I am an atheist. An agnostic one at that. Maybe you should re-read my post. AGAIN.
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Old 01-15-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,380,837 times
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Default Let's get this straight, OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I congratulate you for not being a cultist Atheist.

However, other Atheists write creeds, have websites, TV shows, and are very militant about going to court if they see a nativity downtown. They can be as intolerant as the Evangelicals. See the thread about how Atheist behave in Europe. There seems to be a huge difference when compared to the more militant American Atheists.
We can be, and in my case, are, intolerant at this point in my life. Why? Better question: Why tolerate paradigms that celebrate vast organized and obedience-trained ("Sit, Uboo, sit! Bark! Heel! Roll Over! Good Boy!") Christianity and indeed, Islam? Why?

When this stuff starts to invaginate itself into our daily lives, through, for example, a nutball US Prez who unilaterally "decided" that God told him to go to war, that he would immediately initiate government (i.e.: your's and my money...) funding for some "faith-based" programs, and whose father claimed that "This is a Christian country, and atheists should perhaps go live somewhere else!" (rough translation, btw.).

So then, we put down the remote, the luke-warm Bud and grab for our spray cans and placards. And on our way to a meeting, we see a huge nativity scene placed in a city park, or in the Rotunda of the state capitol.

So...would those creative Christian types go for, say, a particularly secular scene placed in the main hallway of each and every elementary school in the country? I think there'd be some demonstrations then, huh?

After all, look at their reaction to the teaching of facts in science class. They just can't tolerate it, and they want to force-feed utter nonsense into our kids' mind at every opportunity.

I believe that's formally called " Brainwashing & Indoctrination" and the Taliban is doing just that in Afghani schools ,where the kids can ONLY memorize that lovable Qu'Ran. "Kill the infidel!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
So you admit all religions are therefore cults?

Second, you have no idea what number of atheists in the US participate in those things at all. Therefore you have no idea whether or not the group known as "American Atheists" are more militant than those from anywhere else.
Right! But again, it's OK to organize against rampant ignorance, right? Hardly makes it a religion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Many of the priests I've known are almost certainly as educated as you.

Still I suppose no one knows everything so we're all ignorant on something. Theism at least gives the hope of some day not being ignorant, atheism inherently denies that's even possible.

By definition as an atheist you will always and forever be ignorant of most things. You will always be limited to what you can learn in, at most, 122 years. Which means you'll always be limited to like .00000000000000000000001% of the Universe at most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astonished_rflmn
Where on earth do you come up with this idea, Thomas? I'm frankly surprised. You seem to be in full intellectual reversal these days!

How can you even suggest this? Only religion disallows the thorough investigation of facts through a simple organized question & answer process (the SI). Where does that lead us into the paths of darkness & ignorance, or limit what we question?

And what if we go ahead and question all those religious fairy tales and repeatedly find them severely wanting? All that has been done: Just go back on C-D about 3 years and review the interminable threads about Noah's Ark presided over my you, me, C34, sans, Asheville and others here where we looked all the rational reasons it didn't, couldn't and wouldn't have ever happened, examining all the data and research, and then came to the obvious conclusion?

Where would a religious outlook have led us? Historically, we know: directly to the public square and public stonings, burnings, brandings or lashings.

You think religion promotes thorough understanding and knowledge? Really?

If we invoke statistics, then yes, scientific understanding can and will only ever understand an infinitely small part of The Greater Universal Truth, but when we do relentlessly resolve even one of those tiny parts, at least we can have some higher confidence it's very likely at the very least.

Not so with religious fairty-tale dreams and spiritual meanderings. That's delusional.

Odd that you seem to prefer the delusinal!! What's that all about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
Honestly, to be fair, what exactly is a cult?

Do you believe a cult is an assortment of people who share a relationship by confiding in an ideology based on an inverse of belief, where they are absolutist in their disbelief of that which is unknown?
Partly right, byt also, this automatically denies atheism as a cult. No meetings of chanting, parrot-repeating, disciplined participants, threated into believing a particular way. Nope; what you see is a natural human reaction to being personally, intelletually and spiritually threatened by a group dedicated to mass ignorance and to letting others do their thinking for them. I.e: Christianity & Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Atheism isn't predicated on truth at all. At best it's predicated on the idea that all that can be known is all that can be discovered by us via natural means. Atheism ends up as a negation of the idea there is Truth or that Reality is fully knowable because humans aren't omniscient or omnipresent. You do not know "The Truth." (And for the record neither do I) I can 100% guarantee that.

"Frightens" is probably not the right world. And I admit I'm not sure. No God would probably sadden me more, but no afterlife might be more unnerving I guess.
1: The stink of fear of death pervades Christianity, for sure. I don't deny it, but I also find that an understanding of death and dying can be helpful. The biggest threat seems to be a fear of the experience of being frightened in the period before death.

2: Science, which is NOT atheism, btw, is simply the only means we do have to uncover the unknowns we run into daily. It's a fact that 99.999999999999% [ro mor...] of all scientists are by and large atheists since, by George, they soon enough in their thoughts and careers realize how frightened Christinaity and religion are of facts and knowledge, and how violently it's adherents attack science, education and historical figures (Darwin, for example).. Why would the cults want to give up their fiscal and spiritual stranglehold on the un-critically thinking public, who up until now have reliably flocked in for comfort and a group hug?
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:48 PM
 
9,877 posts, read 6,750,565 times
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Atheist Experience #560: The Amaz!ng Meeting - YouTube
Very good example of cultish atheists
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,988,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Science, which is NOT atheism, btw, is simply the only means we do have to uncover the unknowns we run into daily. It's a fact that 99.999999999999% [ro mor...] of all scientists are by and large atheists
No it's not, where do you even get that?

According to Pew Research, not a religious group, 33% of scientists believe in God.

Section 4: Scientists, Politics and Religion | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

Even that study that said how "elite scientists" are mostly atheist had belief at 7%, which is quite low but not the near-zero you're saying.

Nature, "Leading scientists still reject God"* July 23, 1998

Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
they soon enough in their thoughts and careers realize how frightened Christianity and religion are of facts and knowledge, and how violently it's adherents attack science, education and historical figures (Darwin, for example).. Why would the cults want to give up their fiscal and spiritual stranglehold on the un-critically thinking public, who up until now have reliably flocked in for comfort and a group hug?
My degree is history, but I have a fair amount of interest in science.

The majority of the world's Christians are Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. The Vatican recently gave a million dollars to Neostem for adult stem-cell research. The Pontifical Academy of Science honored Stephen Hawking once. I've given to the Vatican Observatory myself. I love science. It's made my life better and is the way to understand repeatable natural phenomenon. Most of the world's Christians either like science or are indifferent.

I do grant that science isn't my creed or life-philosophy. I like it as a tool to learn things, not as my sole vision to learn anything or know reality. As a creed or "way" I think science is pretty thin gruel. But that hardly makes me or most of the world's Christians against it.

I do think I was getting too harsh though as this is y'all's forum. I can see advantages in atheism, I don't think it's a religion or cult, and I think most atheists are basically fine people. If you want to be atheist be atheist. I will try to limit any hostilities to the buying in of a bunch of idiotic generalizations that demean much/most of humanity, like this stuff you're saying here.

Last edited by Thomas R.; 01-15-2012 at 03:22 PM..
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:44 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,942,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I congratulate you for not being a cultist Atheist.

However, other Atheists write creeds, have websites, TV shows, and are very militant about going to court if they see a nativity downtown.
How is using the due process of law "militant"?
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:50 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,942,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post

Atheist Experience #560: The Amaz!ng Meeting - YouTube
Very good example of cultish atheists
Nobody's going to watch an hour and half of public access cable TV to try and pick out whatever point you believe you're making. Be more specific and maybe people will take you seriously.
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