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Old 01-11-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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Atheism is not a cult. There is disagreement as to what "cult" means, or if it means anything, but generally I'd say people use it to mean something like.

A new religious movement that encourages its followers to live unconventional, for their society anyway, lifestyles. (Raelians, Falun Gong, etc)

A religion that demands unquestioning obedience and that controls most aspects of its followers lives. (Branch Davidians, Solar Temple, etc)

Atheists may live unconventionally, but many or most don't really and it's up to individual choice. Atheism has no leader or collective to be unquestioningly obedient too.

This is not to say a cult can't be atheistic. Some consider the Raelians to be a cult and as I understand it they do not believe in God. In itself atheism is an opinion/view/outlook on one question. So various philosophical or religious systems could contain atheism. Generally Logical-Positivism, Marxism, Objectivism, and stricter forms of Rationalism embrace atheism. Many Humanists are also atheists. This doesn't mean atheism is Marxism, Objectivism, or even Rationalism. Although maybe uncommon it's not impossible to be a non-Rational Atheist. I believe Nietzsche was a critic of Rationalism and not theist. I think it's pretty common for non-Rational Atheists to object to God on human/humanistic terms as they understand them.

I think what the OP was maybe getting at is that to definitively say there is no supernatural or even that there is no God/gods of any kind is in a way a creed. And I'd say many to most of your more public atheists do follow some Metaphysical Naturalist Creed. But a metaphysical creed isn't a religious cult, it's not even a religion, so I think that the term was unwise and overly provocative.

But then again I'm a lumpen theist Catholic who appears from time to time. So I suppose you can take of this what you will.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:53 PM
 
164 posts, read 161,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Well, for one thing one has to explain where the Intelligent designer came from. I know that it is claimed that it has always existed, but the idea of a fully - formed and developed being without any origin seems no more reasonable than something from nothing (which, thanks to Prof. Hawking) is looking quite possible these days.

But whatever one supposes about the origins of Life the Universe and everything, the evidence that, once started, it progressed along a line of development through natural processes ought to be compelling.

So where does that fit into our discussion?..yep, we can keep an open mind about those origins without any real evidence. but where we do have evidence, it doesn't back up the religious theories.
What about statistical evidence? Do you believe that what really amounts to a statistical impossibility backs your assertion?
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:02 PM
 
16,598 posts, read 14,081,890 times
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Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
What about statistical evidence? Do you believe that what really amounts to a statistical impossibility backs your assertion?
Lets be honest here. You wouldn't understand, let alone recognize, good statistics if they walked up to you, tapped you on the shoulder and said "Shalom".
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:16 PM
 
164 posts, read 161,082 times
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Lets be honest here. You wouldn't understand, let alone recognize, good statistics if they walked up to you, tapped you on the shoulder and said "Shalom".
Really, so what's your experience with statistics? I'm sure you're an expert at running statistical regressions.

It doesn't take a genius to find numerous statisics that say the creation of life without intelligent design is practically a statistical impossibility.

So why don't you prove me otherwise rather than push your ad hominem attacks.

Moderator cut: deleteYet, an atheist can tell me everything came from nothing and then magically created dinosaurs, because that's believable.

They got proof for that.

Double standard. This is a wicked forum and moderators are discriminating against Christians, and it's clear to see.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-11-2012 at 03:34 PM.. Reason: discussing moderator action is also against the TOS and infractible
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:25 PM
 
16,598 posts, read 14,081,890 times
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Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
Really, so what's your experience with statistics? I'm sure you're an expert at running statistical regressions.
I don't know if I am an expert but I am a published researcher and I have a solid grasp of statistics.

Today for example I ran multiple ANOVAs (univariate and oneway) for some of my students, and Shannon Indices. Regressions (particularly linear) are a piece of cake, I expect my sophomores to be able to do them. Can you do a linear regression?

Quote:
It doesn't take a genius to find numerous statisics that say the creation of life without intelligent design is practically a statistical impossibility.
Please, show me any piece of peer-reviewed literature that makes such a claim. But you won't be able to because no such thing exists. Isn't lying a no-no?

Quote:
So why don't you prove me otherwise rather than push your ad hominem attacks.
It isn't an ad hom to expect you to back up your claims. And based on the above statements it is obvious you do not even understand your own claims. Silly.

Quote:
Although, I'm sure you won't have to do anything because someone will surely say I'm proselytizing and kick me out, considering I've already got an infraction somehow for allegedly doing this.

Yet, an atheist can tell me everything came from nothing and then magically created dinosaurs, because that's believable.
That is a strawman logical fallacy. You whine about ad homs and them throw strawmen around, a bit hypocritical isn't it?

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods, it says nothing about origin of the universe or life. Get real already.

Quote:
They got proof for that.
More lack of comprehension on your part. No we do not have PROOF of the origin of the universe, we have EVIDENCE. I understand that it takes a certain amount of intellect to understand the difference but it does exist, especially in regard to scientific theories.

Moderator cut: orphaned[quote]

Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-11-2012 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:34 PM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,680,414 times
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Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
I don't know about Islam, so I can't proclaim that what those men did was justified according to their religious beliefs, although I doubt it was.

I do know that if a person claimed to be Christian did something similiar, they would be in direct confrontation with the words of Jesus Christ.

I think it is absurd to believe that an atheist is not capable of such travesty. Have you not heard of Stalin?
Fair enough, although it still seems really convenient that whenever a tragedy is committed for what seems like a religious reason (9/11, crusades, obstructing gay marriage, creation in school etc.) there is always someone saying they aren't really (insert religion) or behaving like a "true" (insert religion).

I used to excuse Stalin and said he did this for political statist reasons, until I looked up some sources and realized I was wrong. But I haven't seen the line for what religious-specific crimes are because of religion or belief in god/religion. Maybe you can help me out....
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:44 PM
 
9,814 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Of course not. The requirement for proof is on the other side of the argument.
I am not looking for proof. I am simply pointing out that the certainty used by Atheists regarding the non-existence of a creator is not sound. Agnosticism is a more elegant position.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:51 PM
 
39,134 posts, read 10,857,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
What about statistical evidence? Do you believe that what really amounts to a statistical impossibility backs your assertion?
Look, I think that this has gone quite off - topic. This isn't about the cosmic origins but about whether atheism is a cult or religion. I will say, since no answer will be seen as can't answer is that no assertion is not an assertion and arguments on statistical possibility or not of what no -one really knows much about is pointless
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:54 PM
 
39,134 posts, read 10,857,554 times
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I am not looking for proof. I am simply pointing out that the certainty used by Atheists regarding the non-existence of a creator is not sound. Agnosticism is a more elegant position.
It's also a more logical one. It is the basis of atheism. We are not persuaded by the arguments for a Creator and agnostic theists are. Our certainty is reserved for the personal gods.
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,709 posts, read 2,653,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
It looks a lot like the Nicene Creed

Interesting
Not every atheist believes that; the most obvious examples are homophobic atheists and atheists who believe in ghosts. While I think it's a good creed that's more like common sense to me, I wouldn't call it the "Atheist's Creed"; it reads more like a "Rationalist's Creed".
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