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Old 01-11-2012, 04:52 PM
 
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“If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color”
Mark Schnitzius
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I am not looking for proof. I am simply pointing out that the certainty used by Atheists regarding the non-existence of a creator is not sound. Agnosticism is a more elegant position.
Atheism is a lack of belief in deities. Is your lack of belief in the tooth fairy not sound?
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
It's also a more logical one. It is the basis of atheism. We are not persuaded by the arguments for a Creator and agnostic theists are. Our certainty is reserved for the personal gods.
It is not logical to have that certainty. It gives you a narrow mindset. The agnostic is more open minded.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Atheism is a lack of belief in deities. Is your lack of belief in the tooth fairy not sound?
Thank you for not using the unicorn example, ha, ha.

The problem is that we have a universe and the amazing planet Earth. Cosmologist know the visible universe started with the Big Bang, but they do not know a thing about the the instant before the Big bang or whether there was anything here at all. Relativity and Quantum mechanics fall apart at the time of the Big Bang. Hopefully Super String theory can bring some light on this.

The universe or multiverse is not the same as a tooth fairy or a unicorn.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
It is not logical to have that certainty. It gives you a narrow mindset. The agnostic is more open minded.
So are you agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Purple Unicorn?
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Thank you for not using the unicorn example, ha, ha.

The problem is that we have a universe and the amazing planet Earth. Cosmologist know the visible universe started with the Big Bang, but they do not know a thing about the the instant before the Big bang or whether there was anything here at all. Relativity and Quantum mechanics fall apart at the time of the Big Bang. Hopefully Super String theory can bring some light on this.

The universe or multiverse is not the same as a tooth fairy or a unicorn.
LOL. I just used the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Invisible Purple Unicorn before I saw this post.

Or Santa Claus? Seriously, you should have no more agnosticism for the Bible God than for these other ideas.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
So are you agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Purple Unicorn?
Recycling worn out phrases is a good way to avoid a debate. I congratulate you!
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kansarado View Post
Well let's say I'm an atheist, and I'm the most powerful person in an overpopulated world.

What do I need you for? Are you not just a parasite that is eating from my plate?

What need have I for you?

Yet, the words that Jesus Christ spoke are the greatest threat to civilization?

To love your brother? To be selfless? To have mercy?

That is what you believe to be the greatest threat to civilization?
No, it is what people do in the name of these imaginary gods that is the threat.

Doubt that, watch the evening news, read the news paper.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Recycling worn out phrases is a good way to avoid a debate. I congratulate you!
You cannot debate with people who want to define your *belief* system for you. The only thing that atheists have in common is not believing in a god or gods. I don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Jesus, God the Father, or any other personal god as there is no evidence for this. I can leave a very small amount of room for a creator who set the universe running but doesn't intervene in our lives, but even that is fairly improbable.

None of that, however, has any bearing on my empathy for others. That is a human trait that does help the species survive.

Even other primates actually exhibit empathy

The empathic ape

Quote:
For a demonstration of primate empathy consider a zoo bonobo named Kuni. When she saw a starling hit the glass of her enclosure, she picked up the stunned bird and climbed to the top of the tallest tree. She carefully unfolded its wings and spread them wide, holding one wing between the fingers of each hand, before sending the bird like a little toy airplane out towards the barrier of her enclosure. But the bird fell short of freedom and landed on the bank of the moat. Kuni climbed down and stood watch over the starling for a long time. By the end of the day, the recovered bird had flown off safely.

The way Kuni handled this bird was different to anything she would have done to aid another ape. Instead of following some hard-wired helping scheme, she tailored her assistance to the specific situation of an animal totally different from herself. This kind of empathy rests on the ability to imagine the circumstances of another. Adam Smith, the father of economics, must have had actions like Kuni's in mind (though not performed by an ape) when he offered us the most enduring definition of empathy as "changing places in fancy with the sufferer".
Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior - New York Times

Quote:
Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days.
Quote:
Social living requires empathy, which is especially evident in chimpanzees, as well as ways of bringing internal hostilities to an end. Every species of ape and monkey has its own protocol for reconciliation after fights, Dr. de Waal has found. If two males fail to make up, female chimpanzees will often bring the rivals together, as if sensing that discord makes their community worse off and more vulnerable to attack by neighbors. Or they will head off a fight by taking stones out of the males’ hands.

Dr. de Waal believes that these actions are undertaken for the greater good of the community, as distinct from person-to-person relationships, and are a significant precursor of morality in human societies.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:05 PM
 
9,877 posts, read 6,747,934 times
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Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
You cannot debate with people who want to define your *belief* system for you. The only thing that atheists have in common is not believing in a god or gods. I don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Jesus, God the Father, or any other personal god as there is no evidence for this. I can leave a very small amount of room for a creator who set the universe running but doesn't intervene in our lives, but even that is fairly improbable.

None of that, however, has any bearing on my empathy for others. That is a human trait that does help the species survive.

Even other primates actually exhibit empathy

The empathic ape



Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior - New York Times
I agree with your post and congratulate you for not being an absolutist.
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