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Old 05-13-2012, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,336,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lille Ida View Post
Being from Scandinavia - Norway, Sweden and Denmark are among the most secular western nations in the world. We have large number of Atheists/Agnostics with religious people being the minority. However, our holidays and culture are still Christian. Most of our national holidays are religious Christian with few secular ones'.

Despite us having very large nonbelievers population, we are never against the religious people. Sweden also has separation of church and state.

Our public schools still teaches religion, and on some high holidays many schools take students to churches. On St. Lucia's Day, students sing also about Jesus Christ. Many schools also teaches bible lessons after class if students are interested.

From what I've seen and read, it seems like Atheists in the U.S. are very Anti-religion. They try to take away all religious things in America, despite the U.S. having 80% Christians and only 1.6% Atheists/Agnostics. Yes, around 16% are Non-religious but that does not mean they don't believe in God, they are just not members of any religious places. So America could be considered a religious nation.

Why not leave religious people alone and let them keep or make religion in the U.S. as much as possible.... ignore and laugh at them (My tips).
Yes, I understand it could be annoying when religious people get mad and angry at nonbelievers, but if you guys ignore them then they wouldn't say anything hopefully. In Scandinavia I never heard any fight between religious and non-religious people at all, maybe because us non-believers don't care what they do in our country, because we like Christian holidays and culture.
The U.S. was settled by Puritanical Law. The notion that I am right by any costs runs deep in every American to this day. It is who we are.

Oh, and also because as Americans, we need an enemy. It is also bred into every American that someone else is at fault. We like to point fingers and blame our neighbors.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,336,046 times
Reputation: 6158
Quote:
Originally Posted by box_of_zip_disks View Post
What about the church arsons in Norway in the 90s?.
\m/ black f**kin' metal \m/

Not that I approve.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,366,929 times
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I agree with what you are saying about American people, K-Luv, they do have that "blame others, especially neighbors" thing built in...and most Europeans get annoyed at the "I'm right and you are wrong" type attitude. "We saved you all from Germany in the world wars and if it weren't for the Americans you'd all be speaking German here!!" is what I heard many times over here. I don't even react to that type statement anymore because it says more about the person saying it than anything else...That's why Americans have the "obnoxious" label. Not all are like that of course, but I'm talking the deep rooted Americans...I guess descendants of those who
settled in the US generations ago are some of the worst. There are zeolots everywhere in the world and even places that are known to be the opposite of that have some extremists, look at Norway.
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:36 PM
 
134 posts, read 123,802 times
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Atheists in America don't want to take away religious things for religious people. If you want to pray go ahead. If you want to say Creationisn is right fine. What American atheists object to is when someone says "Public school prayer ought to be had, and Creationism ought to be taught through law." That's when atheists go "No!The consitution forbids that." Atheists also don't care about what ridiculous pagan rooted holiday Christians celebrate.What atheists care about is when any of these holidays come around the majority if not all of what we see is how great Christmas, Easter,Jesus is, and then there's the everyday Jesus is great. We don't say, "Let's ban Christmas." What atheists want at minimum is for Christians and other religious people to keep their religion to their individual private lives. Now, some atheists would like it if religion was done away with,me included.Though we are not going to take away rights to religious freedoms to meet our goal.Also,have you ever seen religious Americans?
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,888 posts, read 3,977,230 times
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I want to point out that yes, I agree that American Atheists are so extreme compared to others because Christians in America can be so extreme in comparison to others. Most European Christians I have known were not the obnoxius or closed minded type we have so vocally noted here in America. And Europe did not give the world Jim Jones, or the Unification church, or David Koresh, or Heaven's Gate.....the list goes on. It would seem that the freedom of religion and expression we have here in America has inspired some to extremes and many to extremes that infringe on the rights of others.
As a non-theist in America, I am not seeking the removal of religion, I am seeking to be left alone. Like wise, I do not want religious people using their fear and ignorance to base law and standards for the rest of us. Politics and religion are NOT separate in practice, as the fundy/evangelicals , the same ones who gave us Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggart have reached out to the republican party and are using that influence to further their agenda. Why else would same sex unions be such a big issue otherwise ? Who else would care? If ya don't like it, then don't do it !!!!!!
But getting back to the OP
There is a growing movement of atheists in America, as pointed out in an earlier post. I think partly the terrorist attacks of 9/11 did more to show the bad side of religion than anything else, and after people initially flocked to churches afterwards, that same attendance has greatly decreased since. In short, many of us are diisillusioned with religion and what it does. Like I told my son, since CHristianity has become such a disaster in this country, we will have nothing else to do with it. We have many choices, from staying home to attending something non-Christian, such as Buddhist meditations and yoga classes. I speak up more against Christianity now than I used to, but only when provoked.
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:36 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,805 posts, read 70,635,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lille Ida View Post

From what I've seen and read, it seems like Atheists in the U.S. are very Anti-religion. They try to take away all religious things in America, despite the U.S. having 80% Christians and only 1.6% Atheists/Agnostics. Yes, around 16% are Non-religious but that does not mean they don't believe in God, they are just not members of any religious places. So America could be considered a religious nation.

Why not leave religious people alone and let them keep or make religion in the U.S. as much as possible.... ignore and laugh at them (My tips).
Yes, I understand it could be annoying when religious people get mad and angry at nonbelievers, but if you guys ignore them then they wouldn't say anything hopefully. In Scandinavia I never heard any fight between religious and non-religious people at all, maybe because us non-believers don't care what they do in our country, because we like Christian holidays and culture.
I've asked people in the American atheist "movement" this (OP) question. They say a more militant position is needed because of aggressive harassment on the part of the Christian Right, which has become much more vocal since George HW Bush's Presidency. In some parts of the US, people are asked at their place of employment if they go to church, and if they answer "no", or that they're not Christian, it can cause problems in the workplace. Non-Christian children get harassed at school in conservative Christian communities. I know people who have experienced this.

On the other hand, there are, and always have been, quiet atheists who aren't political about their lack of religiosity, just like in European countries. I would say these are the majority among atheists, though you never hear about them, because no one knows they exist. There's no reason for them to announce their presence, just like most Christians don't announce what denomination they are, or even the fact that they are Christians. It's sad that there are these polarized extremes that create the impression that these groups are the norm. They are not. Far from it. But they're good at making noise and getting publicity.

P.S. There are far more than only 1.6% atheists or agnostics. The majority of the families in the neighborhood where I was raised, for example, weren't religious. It's not so unusual.
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:53 PM
 
771 posts, read 1,120,497 times
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I'm not against religions, per se, I'm against the way the religious people in this country TREAT people that aren't religious. I can only assume, that is the leading reason for why Atheists in this country are more extreme than elsewhere. If the Christians and alike left us alone like we left them alone, we wouldn't be having problems. So I guess in a way, you can say the Christians in this country are also extremist, and probably more so than elsewhere.
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:08 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,805 posts, read 70,635,877 times
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[quote=pandaundercover;24365714 So I guess in a way, you can say the Christians in this country are also extremist, and probably more so than elsewhere.[/QUOTE] Be careful about generalizing. It's only a minority of Christians that are extremist. You never hear about the quiet Christians who never go to church, or who do go to church but keep it to themselves. Religion used to be personal information that wasn't discussed in public. Many Christians and atheists keep it that way.

It's only since GW Bush discovered the Christian Right as a potential voting bloc during his father's Presidential campaign that suddenly we're hearing a lot more about them and from them. They used to be considered a lunatic fringe. Like snake handlers and people who spoke in tongues.
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Earth. For now.
1,227 posts, read 1,776,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Be careful about generalizing. It's only a minority of Christians that are extremist. You never hear about the quiet Christians who never go to church, or who do go to church but keep it to themselves. Religion used to be personal information that wasn't discussed in public. Many Christians and atheists keep it that way.

It's only since GW Bush discovered the Christian Right as a potential voting bloc during his father's Presidential campaign that suddenly we're hearing a lot more about them and from them. They used to be considered a lunatic fringe. Like snake handlers and people who spoke in tongues.

Then it's time to screw'em and stand up to the lies, deceit and vitriol spewed by this most deceitful and truly insane fringe groups in the world.

I wish politicians had the backbone to say to some people: "You know, you're a lunatic, and I won't hear your counsel." Politicians today are so afraid of marginalizing ANY group (for the sake of their own jobs) that they have become mouthpieces for the extremists who emptily threaten the politician's career with vitriol if they don't do the bidding of the extremist group.

And that's because the voices of reason and rationality have chosen to remain quietly on the sidelines. An extreme example:


The earth is not rotating - spinning - or moving !! - YouTube

It's those weirdo extremists who get the attention of the Press, because it creates a pseudo "controversy" - which always sells headlines.

"Yes! You are a God-Fearing Conservative!! The Liberals intend to DESTROY you!!! Join in the fight against those Leftist educated elitists!!!"

"Yes, Us Liberals really know the state of affairs in this world and anyone who disagrees is obviously a mind-controlled, country-bumpkin Conservative!!" You have been brainwashed by George Bush and Dick Cheney!!"

Such nonsense is the purview of both parties.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:37 AM
 
134 posts, read 123,802 times
Reputation: 62
Just curious when the person said American Atheists was he or she reffering to the organization with the name American Atheists or Americans who happen to be atheists? I just want to clarify I was talking about Americans who happen to be atheists not necessarily affiliated with an organization. I know nothing about American Atheists's (I'm pretty sure I need the extra's because I am reffering to the views of one entity.Isn't grammar fun?) views,and can't say if they are extremist or not.
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