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Old 05-20-2012, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,343,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
As for delusional thoughts...how come you dont think everything coming about by Nothing from nothing having not a shred of purpose.....isnt delusional ?
How come you don't think your god creating everything from nothing isn't delusional?
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,556 posts, read 5,403,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
As for fears, they will come on your deathbed if not already.
Gee Willikers!



(Drew Struzan, Ernie Cefalu)
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:49 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,250 posts, read 19,550,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
As for fears, they will come on your deathbed if not already.
We are all going to the same place after death. Nonexistence is nothing to fear.

You won't know or feel anything.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:53 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,964,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
If you want to join an established Atheist Organization, then you can attend, go thru the secular-religious hoops, and pay dues ; afterall...why WOULDNT you want to be a part of institutionalized Atheism for the cause ? As for fears, they will come on your deathbed if not already. As for the 'obvious of no personal theistic Creator (viz: God) ' ... do you see the 'obvious' existence of the proverbial one celled pond protozoa which world reknown atheist Scientists calculate being a reality at : 1 in 10^40,000 th FAITH ? As for delusional thoughts...how come you dont think everything coming about by Nothing from nothing having not a shred of purpose.....isnt delusional ?
Sorry, to say that I haven't bought into the boat load of utterly absurd fairy tales and suffer no delusions that would cause this fear you cling to with such desperation. Your attempt at instilling fear utilizing Pascal's Wager works only on those already afflicted by the delusion and fear of the bronze age.

It is sad that you had this irrational fear instilled in you at a young age, and you live a life time of torment, not living, but fearing your death. Gotta collect them glory points so you get on the right train to your fairy tale ever after, which of course is just a fairy tale.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:04 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,964,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
If you want to join an established Atheist Organization, then you can attend, go thru the secular-religious hoops, and pay dues ; afterall...why WOULDNT you want to be a part of institutionalized Atheism for the cause ?
Because unlike you I am not a herd animal, one of the flock and all the other euphemisms for mindless followers, nor do I need a shepherd.

Do meet a lot of interesting people just being out in the world, one of the dozen or so local breweries tasting rooms works quite well.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
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It wouldn't be so bad to be a sheep, as long as my shepherd wasn't some huffy, haughty psychopathic murderer, like 007.5's imaginary bible-booby.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:17 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,729,586 times
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Originally Posted by Tantalust View Post
It wouldn't be so bad to be a sheep, as long as my shepherd wasn't some huffy, haughty psychopathic murderer, like 007.5's imaginary bible-booby.
I agree.

I wouldn't like it, but I could accept my status as a slave if there were some noble purpose behind it all.

Instead, it appears God wanted an eternal parade in his honor, and he's enslaved me to be a trombone player in his marching band. Not much meaning in that existence.

But according to many Christians, that's what this whole things is about.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:17 PM
 
40,066 posts, read 26,744,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
I agree.
I wouldn't like it, but I could accept my status as a slave if there were some noble purpose behind it all.

Instead, it appears God wanted an eternal parade in his honor, and he's enslaved me to be a trombone player in his marching band. Not much meaning in that existence.
But according to many Christians, that's what this whole things is about.
The key there is many Christians . . . NOT God, Box. God is alive. God is love and God is growing through us and however many other species there are throughout the Cosmos with consciousness. In fact, I have been toying with an interesting hypothesis that may even be falsifiable. The expansion of the universe is due to the conversion of dark matter into consciousness (dark energy) within the galaxies.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
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^ Wow!
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Default The Contagious Pathology of Christian Logic and Reasoning...

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
The U.S. was settled by Puritanical Law. The notion that I am right by any costs runs deep in every American to this day. It is who we are.

Oh, and also because as Americans, we need an enemy. It is also bred into every American that someone else is at fault. We like to point fingers and blame our neighbors.
How totally at odds with what I have witnessed! Perhaps my world travels to Europe, Australia, Asia, Japan, Canada (my homeland) and the Canadian and American Arctic regions have mis-informed me, huh? Surely the global Arctic residents count as rather distinct and alien places, esp. their native aboriginal dwellers with their spiritual and naturalist-oriented interactions and beliefs! Consider as well the American & Hawaiian "Rez" homes of our far more culturally and socially disrupted [by agressive Christianity of course...] reservation-constrained lifestyles

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
I agree with what you are saying about American people, K-Luv, they do have that "blame others, especially neighbors" thing built in...and most Europeans get annoyed at the "I'm right and you are wrong" type attitude. "We saved you all from Germany in the world wars and if it weren't for the Americans you'd all be speaking German here!!" is what I heard many times over here. I don't even react to that type statement anymore because it says more about the person saying it than anything else...That's why Americans have the "obnoxious" label. Not all are like that of course, but I'm talking the deep rooted Americans...I guess descendants of those who
settled in the US generations ago are some of the worst. There are zeolots everywhere in the world and even places that are known to be the opposite of that have some extremists, look at Norway.
First off, we take on obnoxious Euros who get in our faces about our bad Ameircanisms, they rudely telling us that we Yanks are all exactly the same obnoxious pig-dogs, no matter where we live, from Seattle WA, to Billings, MT to Los Angeles, CA to Dallas, TX to Atlanta, GA to Pennsylvania to NYC to Boston to Fargo to the Florida 'glades. Etc etc etc... Yup. All identical (apparently cloned!) obnoxious types, and also at the exact same level of maturity and education. You betcha.

Btw, I've also been told that Canadians are SOOooo much better educated and behaved than 'Muhr-Kuhn Pig Men! But then I tell 'em a little fatual story. All while they have so greedily accepted my paying the growing and exuberant bar tab they have all rung up since I offered to buy the first round; a lot of them do sneak in a few extra rounds, and also often hold up two, or even better, three fingers ("Make it a triple of your best, Barkeep! Rifleman here won't mind... He's a generous [but loud!] pig-man from America, after all..."),

I then let 'em know that I was a Canuck until I legally and happily immigrated into the US in 1995. "Wait... WHAT? My god, man! Why would ANYONE willingly and consciously do anything that ignorant and idiotic?" (cue "Holier than Thou music and rote-chanted background prayers being muttered by an mindless Amzonian Parrot...)


"Because this is the best place to live on the planet!" I bragadoicously (?) advise them.

Yep, we have our faults, including letting American Christians have far too loud a voice politically and socially... but apparently you French/Greeks/Brits/Mexicans/Germans/Norwegians
Venezuelans don't have ANY FRICKING FAULTS, eh! Not to mention their self-less, amazing and tireless work ethics too, (note: see Greeks and French rioters and strikers on TV these days...).

And, btw, yes, you WOULD be speaking German if we hadn't sacrificed a few (several ten of thousands...) of our best young men and women in several world and local wars, just for you. You're welcome!

The only people I know who don't seem to have ANY faults are the oh-so-loverly Aussies (and maybe..... their nearby lovable cuz's, the Kiwis! Lov'em all, and their pet 'roos and wombats too!)

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rj7237 View Post
Atheists in America don't want to take away religious things for religious people. If you want to pray go ahead. If you want to say Creationisn is right fine. What American atheists object to is when someone says "Public school prayer ought to be had, and Creationism ought to be taught through law." That's when atheists go "No!The consitution forbids that." Atheists also don't care about what ridiculous pagan rooted holiday Christians celebrate.What atheists care about is when any of these holidays come around the majority if not all of what we see is how great Christmas, Easter,Jesus is, and then there's the everyday Jesus is great. We don't say, "Let's ban Christmas."

What atheists want at minimum is for Christians and other religious people to keep their religion to their individual private lives. Now, some atheists would like it if religion was done away with,me included.Though we are not going to take away rights to religious freedoms to meet our goal.Also,have you ever seen religious Americans?
Well stated, Rj! Exactly my ideas as well. We only react to the outright and relentless demonizations of our beliefs, always inaccurate, negative and combative! Right on down to insulting highway billboards, ads in papers and School Board rulings about forcing their brainless and antique ideas on all children in a basic Science Class, where their agenda-soaked curriculum obviously DOES NOT QUALIFY. Hmmm. and we should just sit back in light of such outrageous banality?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I've asked people in the American atheist "movement" this (OP) question. They say a more militant position is needed because of aggressive harassment on the part of the Christian Right, which has become much more vocal since George HW Bush's Presidency. In some parts of the US, people are asked at their place of employment if they go to church, and if they answer "no", or that they're not Christian, it can cause problems in the workplace. Non-Christian children get harassed at school in conservative Christian communities. I know people who have experienced this.

On the other hand, there are, and always have been, quiet atheists who aren't political about their lack of religiosity, just like in European countries. I would say these are the majority among atheists, though you never hear about them, because no one knows they exist. There's no reason for them to announce their presence, just like most Christians don't announce what denomination they are, or even the fact that they are Christians. It's sad that there are these polarized extremes that create the impression that these groups are the norm. They are not. Far from it. But they're good at making noise and getting publicity.

P.S. There are far more than only 1.6% atheists or agnostics. The majority of the families in the neighborhood where I was raised, for example, weren't religious. It's not so unusual.
All well stated, R4T. And agreed on your point about the number of atheists! And this "majority rules a country's religious beliefs" nonsense is typical as well. Pure tripe.

The OP's position here represents a typical atheist-bashing thread, barely camouflaged, and it's what we atheist Americans have to deal with on a regular basis, from open bashing of Darwin/Dawkins/Hitchens/and DeGrasse Tyson, on through the demonization of science in the classroom, and it's "dreadful" implications and conclusions. Oh. My. God!!!

That sort of anti-social behavior is probably either not allowed or culturally suppressed in Europe. I may have to move there! On second thought, nope. I could not stand the socialistic & culture-robbing "We know best!" liberalism such a mono-political culture represents. This is STILL the best place on the planet to be!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandaundercover View Post
I'm not against religions, per se, I'm against the way the religious people in this country TREAT people that aren't religious. I can only assume, that is the leading reason for why Atheists in this country are more extreme than elsewhere. If the Christians and alike left us alone like we left them alone, we wouldn't be having problems. So I guess in a way, you can say the Christians in this country are also extremist, and probably more so than elsewhere.
Again, v. well stated, and so very true, puc! BTW, you by chance an ex-pat Aussie?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Be careful about generalizing. It's only a minority of Christians that are extremist. You never hear about the quiet Christians who never go to church, or who do go to church but keep it to themselves. Religion used to be personal information that wasn't discussed in public. Many Christians and atheists keep it that way.

It's only since GW Bush discovered the Christian Right as a potential voting bloc during his father's Presidential campaign that suddenly we're hearing a lot more about them and from them. They used to be considered a lunatic fringe. Like snake handlers and people who spoke in tongues.
Quite so. But them we havethis vicious and poisonous diatribe...

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Theres a few reasons why american atheism is so outwardly hostile and even militant :

1. It has a few key Leader/Gurus who fancy the notoriety of making atheism a quest to stomp out any and all semblences of God especially Christianity ; such Leaders have become popular thru published books to spread secularism and hedonism which are two fundamental tenets of atheism pertaining to lifestyle --- they bash the Christian Faith in order to enjoy and try justifying these tenets.

2. It has taken advantage of freedom of speech laws to preach an unrelentless barrage of hate, vitrol, defiance, and apathy for the Cause. And when it feels resistance from the Christian Community , it fuels the resentment they have toward godliness, Godly values, Godly ideologies, and especially absolute moral laws which are needed for civility of a Nation.

3. It has formed dedicated Associations such as The American Atheist Association which hold many regional conferences, a very large national conference annually, in addition to atheist kids camps to groom young people to be hateful and spiteful . The ultimate motive is to eliminate all forms of religion they see as an affront except of course for their own secular religion of (now defunct) Darwinnian Evolution and continuance toward playing the charade of Naturalism and Materialism as a worldview --- without a shred of scientific evidence and based solely on speculation, opinion, and enormous faith in the incredulous. (IE: World reknown Atheist Scientists calculate atheistic first life appearing at 1 in 10^40,000 th probability giving it every possible chance) . Atheism is a religious FAITH.

4. It feels greatly threatened with the upsurgence of proactive Christians and Theists exposing the many fallacies of atheism as a worldview or lifestyle .... and anything which stands in the way of total autonomous living whereby One makes SELF his/her god ..... is something it finds resentful even though they volitionally started the war first .

Theres other reasons, but suffice it to say, these are the major ones why hostile and militant Atheism has gained popularity in recent years . It will continue to escalate and the fury strengthened as it sees it impossible to squelch the Christian Faith (IE: ' Within 3 decades the Bible will be extinct' --- Atheist Voltaire whos own house in France is now the largest BIble distribution center to the world) .

Glad to hear its not as bad in Scandinavia ...but it is full of excitement here in the U.S. lol
\

OK... My reasoned vresponse, on a point-by-point basis: "Taken all together, the following is all a bunch of outrageous untruths and blatant lies!"

There. That was easy, and if I really were to go after each if these pathologically unsupportable "points", I could demolish them all in but a few minutes of open debate for each one.

But then we'd also have to chain you into your chair since Chriitians like to bash and run, offering no opportunities for honest ethical debate and discusion.

Or, more directly, this good retort from Rafius:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Balderdash!! How the hell would you even have a clue of what an 'atheist lifestyle' is??
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
If you want to join an established Atheist Organization, then you can attend, go thru the secular-religious hoops, and pay dues ; afterall...why WOULDNT you want to be a part of institutionalized Atheism for the cause ? As for fears, they will come on your deathbed if not already. As for the 'obvious of no personal theistic Creator (viz: God) ' ... do you see the 'obvious' existence of the proverbial one celled pond protozoa which world reknown atheist Scientists calculate being a reality at : 1 in 10^40,000 th FAITH ? As for delusional thoughts...how come you dont think everything coming about by Nothing from nothing having not a shred of purpose.....isnt delusional ?
Again, all of this dreck would be so very easy to demolish, but since it just gets repeatedly rote-a-chant parroted over and over, and the parrot never learns anything but what he'/she's been auto-bot-programmed to reiterate, there's really no point, is there?

It'd be like trying to discuss the physics of water chemistry with a fire hydrant! Not worth the effort since you know it's pointless!

I will however note the always-dreaded sub-surface desperate fear of death and dying that functions as The Prime Motivator for most all Christian acolytes. They want an absolute insurance policy for their guarantee of Eternal Salvation.

Well...so sorry fellas; t'ain't gonna happen thet-thar way, since there is no afterlife! Just your own timely death and biochemical corrosion back onto soil and heat energy (via those one-celled organisms you don't believe in!)

Sorta makes me want you to experience a bacterial infection some time, but then watch as you insistently deny any medical assistance, since bacteria don't exist in your fantasy world!

AAAAAaaand... they also don't mutate and Evolve into more resistant forms almost overnight… ()

But mind now.. your mom would tell you (she's no dummy after all...) "don't miss any of your daily doses of antibiotics, will you dear??"

Good point about "out of nothing via God", made by who again? Rafi? That you? The Godly realists resolutely insist that their special God {and NOT, for some reason, the Commanche coot-see-yuh {"coyote"} god..) made it all in a most impossible manner out of what again? NUTHINN, HONEY!

And in only how many days?

Oh yeah; He made it out of.... nothing. And in only SIX days! Yup! But still... they also claim The Universe was then completely finished, which by any and all observations, it most surely is not!

But then, there I go being LOGICAL and HONEST again. Bad ethics, rifleman! Bad. BAD!

YrHmblSrvnt:


The Rifleman intro - YouTube
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