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Old 01-18-2012, 12:56 PM
 
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Great post; I agree. Some believe the universe is perfect and complex, and it is, although it seems just as likely and logical it wasn't designed. When you try to grasp just how long the universe has been around and the slow formation of planets and eventually life, it does make sense why we're here without a creator.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,467,811 times
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I think I should have titled my post with the idea of a "personal" creator and one that is actively involved in it's creation. I certainly don't see that as a possibility. I also want to re-iterate I see no compelling reason to believe in a creator in general but would be honest to admit I cannot say with 100% certainty that there is no God. I also cannot say with certainty that we are not living in the "Matrix" Keanu Reeves style either. The odds against are astronomical for either to be a reality.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,890 posts, read 4,205,420 times
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The question arises with a "personal" creator, WHY? There are so many whys it becomes a huge joke and the question of a personal creator has to be questioned. If there is a personal creator why are things the way they are? If this god is trying to prove a point, WHY? and to go about it in the way this god has chosen is "sick" to say the least. Whos personal creator wins the day and again WHY?
To me, anyone with a rational mind has to as the question "WHY", again to me, the only rational answer is, there is no personal creator. No one yet has come up with a valid answer as to why there has to be a creator.
I've heard them all, from "our planet is perfect to support life" to "how complex the human eye is" all these things have done it put the cart before the horse.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:21 AM
 
52 posts, read 58,576 times
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Yes, our naturalistic arguments eviscerate theism. So, psychology nust intrude. We need to use sarcasm with reason to reach the faithful. Yes, we still need arguments to overcome their apologetics but psychology would help.
Apologists themselves unwittingly validate our naturalists arguments why they believe with their arguments from happiness-purpose and from angst so that we end up not makng any genetic fallacy. See the thread why believe.
To claim that the Deity exists requires misinterpretations of evidence such as the paramaters for life in the fine-tuning and probability arguments.
The superstitious depend on the arguments from personal incredulity and from ignorance. What a paradox: theists claim that He is the ultimate answer and the sufficient reason, based on that argument!
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,373,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You put up some excellent examples, except for the snipe hunt. Nearly all "snipe" baggers eventually figure out they been had.

I must give you credit, the others are very persistent. In the case of Nessie and the Abominable snowman, so far lasting many centuries.

I'll have to pause and rethink my statement.


You are, and absent my usual sarcasm, Woodrow, a most valuable and open mind here. Someone should enlighten me, however, as to the "snipe" story. There are, after all, snipes....

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.46645...18958&pid=15.1

... though I doubt if they are too tasty....

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
I think I should have titled my post with the idea of a "personal" creator and one that is actively involved in it's creation. I certainly don't see that as a possibility.

I also want to re-iterate I see no compelling reason to believe in a creator in general but would be honest to admit I cannot say with 100% certainty that there is no God.

I also cannot say with certainty that we are not living in the "Matrix" Keanu Reeves style either.

The odds against are astronomical for either to be a reality.
True. Given the paucity of empirical or observable evidence of some supernatural entity operating here (other than "I'm just SO awestruck, so there MUST BE a God!" conclusion...) the only rational possibility with a measurable probability that is not infinitely small is that:

the universe, subject as it so easily and observably is to natural interaction laws (however THEY came to be..), has formed up, and continues to do so as we watch, along predictable lines, and with mostly predictable outcomes.

Or as Homer Simpson has said with uncommonly good sense....

Dohhhhhh!
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:37 PM
 
Location: New York metropolitan area
1,317 posts, read 1,284,282 times
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No God = No Earth
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:44 PM
 
16,100 posts, read 17,899,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
No God = No Earth

God Does Not Exist - Stephen Hawking - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nb7LCau_Z_Y
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:37 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,964,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
No God = No Earth
Go post your ignorance in a thread more attuned to ignorance.

Just the fact you could post your ignorance proves you are wrong.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:43 AM
 
188 posts, read 263,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
To the OP, from your perspective what kind of world would you find if a creator did exist?
A very just world where everyone's goals and aspirations can come true and where there are no sick, disabled, homeless and starving people.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:56 AM
 
278 posts, read 255,493 times
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I whole-heartedly agree with this thread topic, and I have argued these exact words. If you are a non-believer, you can live comfortably with your knowledge that the universe operates by fixed and predictable natural laws; no miracles or 'unmoved movers' needed. This has to be troubling to the believer.
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