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Old 01-14-2012, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,466,714 times
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I believe that with all that goes on in the world everyday, it strikes me as a world that you would find with NO creator or deity playing ANY role in anything. Human behavior and human nature derive from our genetic legacy and behavioral adaptations that have occurred over millions of years. We can see anger,possessiveness,territorial traits and other behaviors in our closest relatives in the great ape family that we share approximately 98% of our DNA with. Pack mentality both good and bad can also be seen in other animals. The so called "sinful" behavior that is put forth in religious traditions is merely human nature that has evolved over millenia for various reasons. It isn't something that is a result of some rebellion in some "Garden of Eden" way back when against a deity. The natural world, including plants,animals,and other organisms is brutal and uncompromising. This is a planet where survival is the name of the game and not one where "turning back" to some God to repent and be "transformed" is going to amount to one iota of anything because it has no basis in reality.

I often wonder if those who believe in a God would call any animal behavior that mimics humans (anger,jealousy,infidelity) "sinful"? The human things that happen on this planet are a result of humans making choices and behaving in certain ways. There is no supernatural explanation needed for it in my opinion. I'm not going to discuss the "free will" debate or "determinism" because in the end I do think that we all are a result of what our human brains are doing and functioning at any given time resulting in certain behaviors and thoughts.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
I believe that with all that goes on in the world everyday, it strikes me as a world that you would find with NO creator or deity playing ANY role in anything. Human behavior and human nature derive from our genetic legacy and behavioral adaptations that have occurred over millions of years. We can see anger,possessiveness,territorial traits and other behaviors in our closest relatives in the great ape family that we share approximately 98% of our DNA with. Pack mentality both good and bad can also be seen in other animals. The so called "sinful" behavior that is put forth in religious traditions is merely human nature that has evolved over millenia for various reasons. It isn't something that is a result of some rebellion in some "Garden of Eden" way back when against a deity. The natural world, including plants,animals,and other organisms is brutal and uncompromising. This is a planet where survival is the name of the game and not one where "turning back" to some God to repent and be "transformed" is going to amount to one iota of anything because it has no basis in reality.

I often wonder if those who believe in a God would call any animal behavior that mimics humans (anger,jealousy,infidelity) "sinful"? The human things that happen on this planet are a result of humans making choices and behaving in certain ways. There is no supernatural explanation needed for it in my opinion. I'm not going to discuss the "free will" debate or "determinism" because in the end I do think that we all are a result of what our human brains are doing and functioning at any given time resulting in certain behaviors and thoughts.
Assuming somehow the universe could have formed and come to it's current state without being created I would see no difference in the physical aspects. However, I believe that by this point religion would have been extinct for many Millennium.

Without an occasional verification that God(swt) exists, believe will soon cease. People will not continue to fish, in a lake that has no fish, for generation after generation.
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,368,316 times
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Cool Fish Stories.

Woodrow: "People will not continue to fish, in a lake that has no fish, for generation after generation."

I'm thinking it always depends on the size of the Whopper stories, don't it, Woodrow? Like.....

"You shoulda seen that huge father of a fish I hooked this morning! He was AT LEAST 10 - 15 feet long, one helluvah Sockeye Salmon by any standards! He was sooo large...

(WOW! How large WAS he, rifleman?)

why.... he pulled at me so hard that I cracked my pelvic Derivative, shattered my right fumoral Tendencies, and crinkled my branial Absesses! I haddah go to the Salmonid Doctor!

So... I'm going back tomorrow, but with one'them new [As Seen on TV™!] Hyper-CrankoMatic Bait Trollers, the ones that my local minister blessed.

God'll call the fishies in for me! Come with! You'll see!


All good for at least another year or two!
______________________________________

Seriously though, in our minds, the universe is exactly how it would be absent any Creator. What we see is the exact and predictable outcome of observable (but not understood, I"ll agree...) molecular and quantum and "Fryho-rythmo-interstatic™" forces at work. We'll probably never understand those pre-Big Bang functioning precursors, but then, you really never know, do we?

Maybe some alien force who "preceded" our particular universe, or is visiting from an earlier or later parallel one, will stop in and explain it to us intellectual dim-wits. Particularly, one might well hope, to Pat Robertson, if he's still sentient (not much time left for him on that count though, huh?).

If we must default to a super God entity for that pre-BB stuff, and given that the results since then are all pretty much explicable, that's simply not good enough for me. I suppose that, if we're supposed to have been make in God's higher image, IQ included, then perhaps there's some assumption that we can also understand everything that we're supposed to be able understand, but otherwise if it's here it's God's handiwork, no questions asked.

Or, it's all a non-Created Universe, and what you see is just what happened.

Did I get off topic I wonder?
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Woodrow: "People will not continue to fish, in a lake that has no fish, for generation after generation."

I'm thinking it always depends on the size of the Whopper stories, don't it, Woodrow? Like.....

"You shoulda seen that huge father of a fish I hooked this morning! He was AT LEAST 10 - 15 feet long, one helluvah Sockeye Salmon by any standards! He was sooo large...

(WOW! How large WAS he, rifleman?)

why.... he pulled at me so hard that I cracked my pelvic Derivative, shattered my right fumoral Tendencies, and crinkled my branial Absesses! I haddah go to the Salmonid Doctor!

So... I'm going back tomorrow, but with one'them new [As Seen on TV™!] Hyper-CrankoMatic Bait Trollers, the ones that my local minister blessed.

God'll call the fishies in for me! Come with! You'll see!


All good for at least another year or two!
______________________________________

Seriously though, in our minds, the universe is exactly how it would be absent any Creator. What we see is the exact and predictable outcome of observable (but not understood, I"ll agree...) molecular and quantum and "Fryho-rythmo-interstatic™" forces at work. We'll probably never understand those pre-Big Bang functioning precursors, but then, you really never know, do we?

Maybe some alien force who "preceded" our particular universe, or is visiting from an earlier or later parallel one, will stop in and explain it to us intellectual dim-wits. Particularly, one might well hope, to Pat Robertson, if he's still sentient (not much time left for him on that count though, huh?).

If we must default to a super God entity for that pre-BB stuff, and given that the results since then are all pretty much explicable, that's simply not good enough for me. I suppose that, if we're supposed to have been make in God's higher image, IQ included, then perhaps there's some assumption that we can also understand everything that we're supposed to be able understand, but otherwise if it's here it's God's handiwork, no questions asked.

Or, it's all a non-Created Universe, and what you see is just what happened.

Did I get off topic I wonder?
I see your point. A few good fish stories and some occasional stocking of the lake could cause people to fish in it for a while. but I doubt that would last for generation after generation.

Just my opinion.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:41 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,950,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

Without an occasional verification that God(swt) exists, believe will soon cease. People will not continue to fish, in a lake that has no fish, for generation after generation.

But kids at summer camp will always be out in the woods in the dark with gunny sacks on snipe hunts, even though no one has ever bagged a snipe.

Let's not forget...
Nessie
The Abominable Snowman
Big Foot
Sasquatch
,,, etc. etc.
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
But kids at summer camp will always be out in the woods in the dark with gunny sacks on snipe hunts, even though no one has ever bagged a snipe.

Let's not forget...
Nessie
The Abominable Snowman
Big Foot
Sasquatch
,,, etc. etc.
You put up some excellent examples, except for the snipe hunt. Nearly all "snipe" baggers eventually figure out they been had.

I must give you credit, the others are very persistent. In the case of Nessie and the Abominable snowman, so far lasting many centuries.

I'll have to pause and rethink my statement.
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:13 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,737,886 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I see your point. A few good fish stories and some occasional stocking of the lake could cause people to fish in it for a while. but I doubt that would last for generation after generation.

Just my opinion.
unless the residents were calling the crabs amd clams they harvested "fish."
and called the method of harvesting "fishing."
From this we might understand the difference that the fishers of crabs and fishers of clams, who claim to be fishing the right way. but what about the krill? those could be fish.
just keep fishing...

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 01-15-2012 at 03:21 AM..
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:06 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,856 posts, read 22,955,873 times
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To the OP, from your perspective what kind of world would you find if a creator did exist?
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,368,316 times
Reputation: 3735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
To the OP, from your perspective what kind of world would you find if a creator did exist?
Boy, yeah... good question, Thomas. It seems to me it should be durned'near perfect, right? I mean, we're told He made Adam & Eve and their little agricultural world PERFECT, but then that durned snake..... [and your usual woman's hungers and vanity... ]. Oh drat!

I wonder if, only then, God damned all those previously glorious Paradise plants and micro-organisms as well. Think Hawaii!

Image Detail for - http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/3635290441_35f9c503e5_z.jpg

Yah Think?

So... what did they do to deserve such a fate, I wonder? And what did He "sic" on them? Plant Fungi? The Blight? The Rot? Or perhaps God's final-answer punishment was to "design" (sic) DNA into his minions soz they would evolve into "just whatever they danged well do evolve into!" (He angrily muttered as He stomped off in a huff, that snake having rather easily "bettered" Him.... )

http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...mb=k6AyBL22iAE

You know, this brings to mind another possibility: maybe God, with His infinite pre-determinism and supernatural knowledge of all that has and all that will come to pass, actually had this...

Image Detail for - http://www.autoclassic.com/features/classic_car_history/photos/ac_cobra.jpg

...in His mind when He sent His elves the "make me one, and be damned quick about it!" order? Maybe it got jumbled: "Make a Cobra!" can mean different things to different elves, right? I mean, maybe He had some REAL fun in mind for Adam and his ancestors, if no-one crashed it...

(talk about a PERFECT universe! My Gawd! These are soooo.. like.. awesome man! The Church of A.C. Cobra and Friends! All fall down and whimper in unison!!)...
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:44 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,856 posts, read 22,955,873 times
Reputation: 6679
Sarcasm, how surprising.
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