U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-25-2012, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,989,805 times
Reputation: 5074

Advertisements

NoCapo: Well said. (Do you play guitar and do not use a capo? If so, kudos!)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-26-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,115,930 times
Reputation: 1399
NoCapo, that was great post.

The good thing is that you seem to honestly understand your feelings and the reasons for them. Maybe that understanding will help you, and your harsh feelings toward the Christian church will subside over time.

I know that I have hard feelings toward certain people from time to time, and when I let go of those feelings I felt much better.

Even though I am an Atheist, I was taught, and I wholeheartedly believe, that organized religion does a lot of good for a lot of people. However, when it goes too far and hurts people like you, that is not good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 09:13 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,972,538 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12 View Post
Are you saying that you believe all Christians vote the same way?
That all Christians or religious people believe the same things?

On the one hand, I find it hard to believe that you can think that. On the other hand, it sure sounds like that's what you believe.
No, just enough to effect the outcome.

How many voted for a candidate solely based on their religion? Based on the exit surveys taken at polls and other surveys the numbers are sufficient to change the outcome.

It is a sad sad day when a man's worth is measured by the version of ancient ignorance he follows. Welcome to amerkia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 03:24 PM
 
Location: FL
1,727 posts, read 2,177,087 times
Reputation: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
No, just enough to effect the outcome.

How many voted for a candidate solely based on their religion? Based on the exit surveys taken at polls and other surveys the numbers are sufficient to change the outcome.

It is a sad sad day when a man's worth is measured by the version of ancient ignorance he follows. Welcome to amerkia

I can agree with you that sometimes (probably too often) people base their votes on ridiculous reasons. I am sure that some religious folks do it way to much. I don't know what the exit surveys say, to be honest. But I am sure that people (religious and non-religious) base their votes on other (foolish?) reasons as well.

Are we starting to get off topic?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 04:49 PM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,252,114 times
Reputation: 1315
To Catman: I do play guitar, and generally don't use capos, although sometimes they are useful. I find them limiting, so i try to work around them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
NoCapo, that was great post.

The good thing is that you seem to honestly understand your feelings and the reasons for them. Maybe that understanding will help you, and your harsh feelings toward the Christian church will subside over time.

I know that I have hard feelings toward certain people from time to time, and when I let go of those feelings I felt much better.

Even though I am an Atheist, I was taught, and I wholeheartedly believe, that organized religion does a lot of good for a lot of people. However, when it goes too far and hurts people like you, that is not good.
Don't mistake me, I am able to function well with believers, and don't push my views on them. I was one of them not too long ago, and I understand where they are coming from. I do not have much tolerance for bigotry hiding behind religion, or patronizing attitudes toward non-believers. I honestly just can't stomach the anti-everything-but-exactly-what-I-believe attitudes that often manifest, so I tend to try to avoid those kind of people. Unfortunately they are my family, so that doesn't work to well. I just try to smile and nod and avoid causing conflict.

I somewhat agree with you on the last point. I think the good that religion does is essentially a placebo. When an alcoholic is able to deal with his addiction through religion, that is great. Religion didn't do it, the individual did, but if that is what they need, so be it. The converse to that is that I feel like the majority of Christians who are not messed up by religion manage to avoid that fate because the don't take it very seriously. When you really absorb things like original sin, the inward leading of the Holy Spirit, the moral rightness of any action commanded by God or the pressure to live a "holy" life, you can wind up in some bad places. It appears to me that most of the good comes from people integrating bits a pieces into their life and discarding what doesn't work for them, a practice that is often roundly condemned from the pulpit.

NoCapo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 04:56 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,972,538 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12 View Post
I can agree with you that sometimes (probably too often) people base their votes on ridiculous reasons. I am sure that some religious folks do it way to much. I don't know what the exit surveys say, to be honest. But I am sure that people (religious and non-religious) base their votes on other (foolish?) reasons as well.

Are we starting to get off topic?
Probably wandering off topic, so lets go the edge then see if we can find our way back. Mindless voters are a huge problem, in general elections, the mindless "straight part ticket" without any regard to the buffoons that they are voting for. I hate to think how many people pull the straight party lever for no other reason than "daddy always voted that way"

In a primary, the mindless can't use the simply formula of party, so they go to yet another mindless decision point, their religion.

I only once a year everyone would be an atheist, election day would be the day to do it. I have always felt very strongly that the "straight party" choice should be eliminated from ballots. If you don't know enough the candidate you are voting for, then you shouldn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,178 posts, read 9,421,795 times
Reputation: 9552
I do not subscribe to any organized religion. Although I am friends with many ministers, and one said that "church hurt" - the wounds one suffers while attending to/subscribing to the beliefs of one church or the other - makes for quite a few atheists.

I am with NoCapo; as long as people feel the need to believe in something, and it helps them overcome difficulties in their lives, I am happy for them. Those who use their church beliefs to promote themselves by crushing or injuring others are people for whom I have no use.

I think it is more valid to discuss morals. Atheists can have strong morals - or they can, like 'devouts', use their beliefs to excuse, even promote, their lack of morals. Child abusers often use religion as a 'cover', as do rapists, thieves, and liars. Having a religious belief - or not having one - should not be an excuse to perpetrate one's base desires onto others. Atheists aren't "going to hell" for their beliefs any more than child abusing Christians, rapist Jews, or thieving Muslims are going to be saved from Hell.

I do like to occasionally 'pink' with a sword of morality those self-promoting Christians who arrogantly think that they are 'saved' no matter whom they hurt or what they do to others. And having been a bible scholar as well as a Sunday School teacher, I can do it with the very verses from the book to which they say they adhere!

But honestly, people like that are really pretty boring and, after awhile, not worth my time. I of course have a life... and it has nothing to do with getting gussied up on Sunday or running off to Bible Study on Wednesday, just to impress people with how righteous I am. If they can't figure out how righteous I am by my daily actions, then they are either too busy to notice or are measuring me by the wrong yardstick. Either way, they don't matter... as much as they desperately need to feel that they do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2012, 05:45 PM
 
Location: FL
1,727 posts, read 2,177,087 times
Reputation: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
I do not subscribe to any organized religion. Although I am friends with many ministers, and one said that "church hurt" - the wounds one suffers while attending to/subscribing to the beliefs of one church or the other - makes for quite a few atheists.

I am with NoCapo; as long as people feel the need to believe in something, and it helps them overcome difficulties in their lives, I am happy for them. Those who use their church beliefs to promote themselves by crushing or injuring others are people for whom I have no use.

I think it is more valid to discuss morals. Atheists can have strong morals - or they can, like 'devouts', use their beliefs to excuse, even promote, their lack of morals. Child abusers often use religion as a 'cover', as do rapists, thieves, and liars. Having a religious belief - or not having one - should not be an excuse to perpetrate one's base desires onto others. Atheists aren't "going to hell" for their beliefs any more than child abusing Christians, rapist Jews, or thieving Muslims are going to be saved from Hell.

I do like to occasionally 'pink' with a sword of morality those self-promoting Christians who arrogantly think that they are 'saved' no matter whom they hurt or what they do to others. And having been a bible scholar as well as a Sunday School teacher, I can do it with the very verses from the book to which they say they adhere!

But honestly, people like that are really pretty boring and, after awhile, not worth my time. I of course have a life... and it has nothing to do with getting gussied up on Sunday or running off to Bible Study on Wednesday, just to impress people with how righteous I am. If they can't figure out how righteous I am by my daily actions, then they are either too busy to notice or are measuring me by the wrong yardstick. Either way, they don't matter... as much as they desperately need to feel that they do.
Amen!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2012, 07:52 AM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,138 posts, read 1,434,238 times
Reputation: 761
Sorry you were treated that way - it is very irritating.

Not all theists are like that, though. That's why I love being Jewish. We're not into proselytizing, and we don't purport to proclaim who's going where after we die. I know what you mean, though - people will often suggest that we're not going to be part of eternal life after if we don't believe a certain thing. First of all, I don't believe that, so it's a moot point, and second of all, even if I wanted to, how could I control what I truly believe in my heart?

My point is, I feel your pain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-29-2012, 11:31 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,972,538 times
Reputation: 8282
Default Yet another christian troll

... is now "not a member" in less than 12 hours of starting out their post with one of their lies of "I'm not troll", while posing a number of questions such as the inane "why don't you want to go to heaven".

Their quick disappearance suggests that this is perhaps yet another cowardly theists that can't follow the rules and created a second (or more .....) account, for the sole purpose of trolling.

They set such a wonderful example of christian behavior, but kudos to the mods for quick action.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top