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Old 01-20-2012, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
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I don't know any anti-gay atheists although I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few out there. I myself am very pro LGBT. They are people, too, usually very kind and generous people, that deserve all the same protections as the rest of us. I suggest that you should try talking to them about themselves and listening with an open mind if you really want to learn more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12 View Post
I also wonder if a person is bisexual isn't there at lest some "choice" in the matter? I get that if you are straight up gay, it is probably just who you are. But when you are bi, I would think there is a little more of a choice.
I don't know a single LGBT who arrived at it by choice - in fact usually just the opposite, usually they fought it with all their might before finally concluding that this is who they are. A bisexual has no more choice about who they are attacted to than anyone else, it is just that sometimes that individual is the opposite gender and sometimes the same. I am a straight woman but sometimes I am surprised by finding a very different type of man attractive than the type I normally like, but it's not like I woke up that morning and chose to be attracted to a different sort of man or even that man in particular. Did you yourself ever choose to be attracted to someone, or is it some mysterious internal process not really under your control?
Moderator cut: orphaned

Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-20-2012 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:33 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,324,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Don't look at me. I think some people and animals are born homosexual and it is a valid lifestyle.

So why are some people and animals born homosexual? This is my theory.

Among early animals, there was no such thing as sexual preference. I recall from Biology class that in sponges, one of the simplest multi-cell animals, every cell is the same. As animals became single sex and developed primitive brains, it became important for the male animals to have a brain that made them attracted to females, and vice-versa.

However, the chromosome that determines the physical (i.e. male) body structure is a different chromosome than the one that determines the brain structure that makes the animal attracted to females. Sometimes an animal has a male body structure and a brain that makes them attracted to other males, or an animal with a female body who is attracted to other females.

If you don't like my theory, can you think of any other reason why evolution would give us homosexual animals?
Another interesting theory I ran across in the book, "A billion wicked thoughts" was that, at least for gay men, their orientation was related to hormonal changes in utero. Their theory was essentially when an excess of testosterone is present in the developing brain, the excess can act like estrogen, so you wind up with men who tend to have some hyper-masculine sexual behaviors, but respond to the same sexual cues as the female brain. I have not dug into the supporting research, but it seems like a fairly interesting theory.

Again, as an atheist, I might be a little squicked out by it, but why would want to be hateful to someone who's crime was to have a different dose of hormones in the womb? Without the condemnation of a deity, it really boils down to what I like or don't like, and I am rational enough to not try to force everyone to like exactly what Ilike.

NoCapo
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:43 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 5,419,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12 View Post
Can you tell me if I'm right or wrong on this?
To be honest I not only know of no atheists who are homophobic... I also know of no secular arguments against homosexuality or the morality of it.

All the arguments I have ever heard against homosexuality are based in homosexuality being against "god's plan" or the arguments are vaguely deistic in that they appeal to concepts like the reproductive organs are "for" reproduction so any other use of them is morally wrong.

Does the lack of any arguments against the morality of homosexuality mean that atheists can not be homophobic though? Not at all. Some people have no, nor think they require, reasons. They just are the way they are.

Firstly haters gotta hate. Secondly some people who realise something is not for them personally go on to feel that therefore it should not be for anyone else. All too often when I explore peoples opposition to something it turns out that their opposition really just amounts to "I personally find X distasteful therefore no one should be allowed have it or do it either".
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:57 AM
 
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I'm sure there are, but I haven't met any. I assume their reasoning would be that it just weirds them out or it seems strange because we already have a peg to go in the slot. But these people also most likely haven't educated themselves enough, so it should only be a matter of time before they smarten up.

When I was a young atheist as a teen, I still thought being gay was strange, until I did this magical thing called research and reading.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:33 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Well, I'm sure they exist but I've never had the displeasure of meeting one. I think atheists and agnostics are far more likely to support gay rights than any other subgroup apart from the LGBT community itself.

Famous atheists openly defending homosexuality and gay rights:

Seth Macfarlane (creator Family Guy)


Bill Maher


Christopher Hitchens


Ricky Gervais (warning: profanity)


Richard Dawkins
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:53 PM
 
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Homophobia is an equal opportunity prejudice.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:31 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,381,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Homophobia is an equal opportunity prejudice.
Homophobia is the fear of having gay sex, or at best anywhere from "ick" to "just ain't my bag". I suspect gays view hetrosexual practices in the same vain.

It takes religion to turn that into a hatred, and the desire to deny these people rights, freedoms, and liberties the rest of us enjoy.

Of course the funny thing is (seen frequently in the news) are the politicians and preachers that rail so against homosexuality, yet are lurking in airport restrooms or hiring male prostitutes.

Last edited by Asheville Native; 01-20-2012 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:21 PM
 
Location: FL
1,727 posts, read 2,225,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilli View Post
I don't know any anti-gay atheists although I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few out there. I myself am very pro LGBT. They are people, too, usually very kind and generous people, that deserve all the same protections as the rest of us. I suggest that you should try talking to them about themselves and listening with an open mind if you really want to learn more.



I don't know a single LGBT who arrived at it by choice - in fact usually just the opposite, usually they fought it with all their might before finally concluding that this is who they are. A bisexual has no more choice about who they are attacted to than anyone else, it is just that sometimes that individual is the opposite gender and sometimes the same. I am a straight woman but sometimes I am surprised by finding a very different type of man attractive than the type I normally like, but it's not like I woke up that morning and chose to be attracted to a different sort of man or even that man in particular. Did you yourself ever choose to be attracted to someone, or is it some mysterious internal process not really under your control?
Moderator cut: orphaned
Moderator cut: delete
My answer:
I don't choose who I am attracted to. But, I have been attracted to more than one person, and I have had to choose, who to have a relationship with and who not to have a relationship with. That's where the choice comes in.

For arguments sake. A bisexual person can be attracted to a person of the same gener and aperson of the opposite gender at the same time. Eventually, if they are the type who prefers to be in a monagamous relationship, hey will have to choose, who they want to be with.

So yeah, maybe you don't choose whether or not you are bisexual, but you can choose what type of relationship you are in. At least in some cases.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-20-2012 at 05:45 PM.. Reason: discussing moderation
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:48 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,942 posts, read 4,490,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12 View Post
I hesitate to answer this because I know it will be misenterpreted by someone. But what the heck. I might as well go out with a bang. I'm getting tired if being censored here while watching others get away with far worse things than anything I've said...I hope you read this before it gets cut for being an orphaned comment.

My answer:
I don't choose who I am attracted to. But, I have been attracted to more than one person, and I have had to choose, who to have a relationship with and who not to have a relationship with. That's where the choice comes in.

For arguments sake. A bisexual person can be attracted to a person of the same gener and aperson of the opposite gender at the same time. Eventually, if they are the type who prefers to be in a monagamous relationship, hey will have to choose, who they want to be with.

So yeah, maybe you don't choose whether or not you are bisexual, but you can choose what type of relationship you are in. At least in some cases.
But what if you find the One, the person you just know you want to spend the rest of your life with, and this person happens to be of the same sex? It's not like anyone can pick and choose whom they fall in love with. It would be like telling a heterosexual not to act upon his feelings if he/she deeply falls in love with a person of the opposite sex, 'cause he/she might meet someone in the future that is more acceptable to society. But what if you never meet this person and you let the love of your life go just because other people (who don't even know you) feel that your relationship is "wrong"? Bisexuals do not have a "choice" to be with one gender or the other. That would only be the case if they fell in love with a man and a woman at the same time and they liked them equally as much, which rarely if ever happens.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,932 posts, read 14,821,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12 View Post
I know a lot of (or some) religious people are anti-gay and they defend their belief with things from the Bible.

That being said, I am pretty sure there have got to be at least some atheist homophobes out there.
I don't know what "anti-gay" means, so you'll have to define it in no uncertain terms.

Also, I didn't see "homophobe" in the DSM-IV, so you'll have to define that as well.

Not nit-picking....

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Plenty of homophobes don't feel the need to justify their hatred other than emotional reasons. Like saying 'it's unnatural', 'it's just wrong', 'it disgusts me.'
"Unnatural" doesn't rise to the level of "hatred."

Are you disgusted by rape? Murder? Kidnapping? Arson? Liars?

Just curious....

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I also know of no secular arguments against homosexuality or the morality of it.
Then you haven't looked.

Googling...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Homophobia is an equal opportunity prejudice.
I have a great dislike for NASCAR, Budweiser, and country music, as well red-necks. What kind of phobia is that?

Wondering...

Mircea

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG View Post
Bisexuals do not have a "choice" to be with one gender or the other.
Yes, they do have a choice. It is about satisfying sexual urges and achieving sexual gratification and nothing to do with the wiring of the brain, except perhaps to the same extent that a pedophile or rapist might be wired.

In their quest for acceptance, homosexuals supported bi-sexuals, which in my opinion was a gross tactical error and one that actually delayed their acceptance. The psychology of bisexualism is very different from homosexualism, and the two cannot be reconciled.

Just saying...


Mircea
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