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Old 01-28-2012, 03:26 PM
 
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There are some schools in Canada and in the US that allow Muslims to pray at various times in schools.

Toronto allows muslim prayer in public schools, bans Christian, other prayer

Mixing Prayer and School - Miller-McCune

Quote:
The case echoes local stories from around the U.S., including a controversy in 2007 when a San Diego school changed its schedule to give Muslim pupils a special lunch break to accommodate midday prayers. About 100 mostly Somali kids had moved to Carver Elementary School after an Arabic-language charter school failed in the area, so there was a sudden demand for prayer time.

At first, the school had allowed an Arabic class to break for 15 minutes to let the kids pray. But some Christian groups noticed a double standard — understandably — and asked for space and time for their own kids to pray. Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, argued at the time that Carver’s accommodation of Muslim prayer presumed “that Christians are less religious and less inspired to worship and praise the Lord and come together.”
Interestingly, the Muslim leader has said this

Quote:
Islam’s five-prayer-a-day stricture is flexible, he argued, and prayers could be combined in the evening if, say, a noontime prayer had to be missed for some plausible reason.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: California
30,709 posts, read 33,524,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
We should all be allowed to put whatever our beliefs are, on public property. We all pay for that public property. Put an atheist poster in my house for all I care. Is it really that big a deal?
WHY? Beliefs have nothing to do with property. How ugly everything would be. Like gangs tagging their turf or something.

A clean, pretty world is better for everyone.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:10 PM
 
Location: South Africa
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My entire schooling was one that started every day with assembly, a hymn, a prayer and a short scripture reading. Jews were excluded from the "religious" part but back then schools were segregated by race. There was an hour religious studies every week and clergy would take their flock's kids to separate venues and the heathen got to watch national geographic films for and hour.

No one made a huge fuss but then we did not have swathes of commandments and prayers plastered over the school. Gideon bibles were issued to us and we were allowed to refuse them and some kids did. This was ess under British rule and influence of the Church of England. Of course the holy joes as we called them back then (evangelicals) you could count on one hand and they would gather at break times.

Our society was predominantly xian albeit mostly lip service ones.

Most of what happened was out of tradition rather than commitment, you could see the headmaster hated doing this and would delegate this to the deputy head if he had one. We never once had a teacher proselytizing or praying. The borders did grace led by a prefect and that was about it and amounted to "for what we are about to receive, may the lord make us truly thankful - amen"

The Church of England influence was a lot less intrusive than what seems to be the evangelical types in the US (based on what I read here and elsewhere) Even the evangelicals here in SA are not as radical as what seems to be the norm in the US.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:24 PM
 
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,567 posts, read 5,411,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
Agreed. The biggest threat to Christianity is not atheists or other religions, it is the ignoramuses that claim to be Christian and do the exact opposite of what Christ would do.
Well, as Christ clearly commanded his worshippers to "love less" their own families, who on earth knows what he would supposedly do to people involved in a sensitive issue like this.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
We don't have one, how about something Islamic?
An Islamic prayer hanging on a wall in a government building? Nope, wouldn't care. There are more important things to worry about, than whining about some prayer on a wall.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Tolerance? What tolerance? You have shown us plainly with your various threads that you have no tolerance for anyone who does not think exactly as you do.
Having a different opinion than someone else does not equate to intolerance.
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Old 01-28-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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I am 66 years old and I was raised in the Southern part of the USA. SeekerSA, it sounds like your school was a lot more religious than ours was.

Every day we would have a bible reading and then recite the lord's prayer and our Pledge to the Flag. On Easter, we would have an assembly where we would sing a couple Christian songs like "The Old Rugged Cross". The few Jewish kids could decline to take part in these activities.

That was the extent of our religious education. They did not give us bibles or give us one hour of religious studies each week like your school did.

What do you mean "The borders did grace led by a prefect"? Did someone say a blessing at your meals in school? We never did that - not even once.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I am 66 years old and I was raised in the Southern part of the USA. SeekerSA, it sounds like your school was a lot more religious than ours was.

Every day we would have a bible reading and then recite the lord's prayer and our Pledge to the Flag. On Easter, we would have an assembly where we would sing a couple Christian songs like "The Old Rugged Cross". The few Jewish kids could decline to take part in these activities.

That was the extent of our religious education. They did not give us bibles or give us one hour of religious studies each week like your school did.

What do you mean "The borders did grace led by a prefect"? Did someone say a blessing at your meals in school? We never did that - not even once.
And how do you think those Jewish kids felt about someone else's religion being taught at their school? Yes, they could opt out, but that in itself leads to exclusionism, and ostracism, causing the kids to feel left out and different. And kids can certainly be very mean about such things. Was it
fair to treat them in such a way?
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,119,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Was it fair to treat them in such a way?
No, of course not. The public schools should have nothing to do with religion.

I was just comparing our schools in the 1950's to the schools described by SeekerSA.
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Old 01-28-2012, 10:06 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,325,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I am 66 years old and I was raised in the Southern part of the USA. SeekerSA, it sounds like your school was a lot more religious than ours was.

-snip-

What do you mean "The borders did grace led by a prefect"? Did someone say a blessing at your meals in school? We never did that - not even once.
It was a boarding school, meaning we had hostels for the lads from other towns, probably more like your colleges. We had no canteen and our schools were out by 13.00 and we had sports in the afternoons. For day scholars staying far from school, they could opt to stay and have lunch at school with the borders. The grace was as I said led by a prefect (a prefect a student leader in the 6th form elected by the school board or parent teacher association, they usually were academic or sport achievers). Any assembly prayers were recited from a prayer book and not a self made up one.

The weekly religious studies were again optional and say if you were RC, you could opt out with a parents note. My dad's church was a cult and on the admission forms, religion was entered as either non denom or n/a so folk guessed I was an atheist. (prophetic perhaps)

At high school it was similar and there the majority of kids assembled in the gym, Occasionally we had a pot luck preacher that tried to preach to the heathen kids but was usually laughed at when they made silly statements like we are all destined to hell. The group was to big and too mature to still watch movies for an hour. The kids that went with their clergy were mostly catholic, Church of England, some Dutch Reformed (Afrikaans speaking) kids and the few Jews we had with us. The Jewish folk had no schools of their own and there was only a junior school for LDS and a Christian Brother's College and a Convent for the catholic kids, junior and HS. We still had quite a few RC kids in our school as it was a technical school.

As for the bibles, they were a "gift" and we were not required to bring them to school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
And how do you think those Jewish kids felt about someone else's religion being taught at their school? Yes, they could opt out, but that in itself leads to exclusionism, and ostracism, causing the kids to feel left out and different. And kids can certainly be very mean about such things. Was it
fair to treat them in such a way?
It was not teaching a religion more than a tradition handed down. Like I mentioned, the headmaster hated doing it. The culture was not overtly religious. In the then Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) HS was separated by sexes, boys only and girls only, the catholic schools were separated from junior and went from Gr1 to 12 at both their schools. My junior school was coed.

If you ever attended mass, the service is pretty mild by comparison to an evangelical one where folk get a preach attack or sprout out in tongues or have epiphanies (make crap up) The CoE was more of less the same as the RCC in this regard and being a Brit colony, most white folk were pommies. Oddly enough under this system, folk were very tolerant of each other's personal beliefs but TBH, barring a very small number of woos, most kids never discussed religion, you were seen to be strange if you did.

At age 10 or so I was more fluent in the KJV than the headmaster was, I was an anomaly and yet declared for all intents and purposes an atheist by my dad on the admission forms.

In South Africa, the influence was mostly orthodox Dutch Reformed except English schools that were similar to the ones in Rhodesia. Neither made a real issue of religious studies or introduced posters or stuff like chick tracts. The little that happened at assemblies was about it and the focus was still on secular education. Never once was I taught creationism in science or even in history classes. The only time this came up is when we learned of the crusades. As for the pledge of allegiance, we sang god save the queen for awhile but that stopped as we lived in changing times.

In both societies, politicians never ran on any religious slant like in the US, our batcrap crazies were a very small minority. For me it is pretty weird to see politicians in the US making god claims and I never heard god bless (country) in speeches, more like ended off with god save the queen.

In both societies it was like an unwritten rule, you do not discuss politics or religion in the public sphere and in the workplace, folk did not ask you what church you went to or what your beliefs were. For all intents and purposes, we were pretty much all heathen.

We never had a school prayer like something with the school name in mind and seeing folk pray before a sporting event was something I only saw in SA.

The honouring of the queen who is CoE is by inference, you "adopted" their creeds but even so, like in England, the church has little to no influence any more. Blue laws are all but gone. Malls are open 7 days a week and the only businesses that do not operate on Sundays are ones like travel agencies and banks.
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