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Old 02-20-2012, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,146 posts, read 3,970,530 times
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why does he need to be worshipped? what a selfrighteous creature!! that's a human trait, please kiss the ground I walk on!!! more proof that it's all a human invention...
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:22 AM
 
570 posts, read 371,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieZ
why does he need to be worshipped?
He doesn't... we do .
We sin & need the forgiveness & we die & need to go to heaven .
Quote:
what a selfrighteous creature!!
selfrighteous !!!
Is that what you think of some one who want to help you & guide you to the right way ?
selfrighteous !!!?
Then people should think twice before even trying to help you!!!
He is not a creature ..
That is what happens when you apply humans Characteristics on God .
It will make you lost the ability of how you shoul think .
Expand .
I know you will say the same thing to me on the opposite direction ..
it just how we think .
Quote:
that's a human trait, please kiss the ground I walk on!!! more proof that it's all a human invention...
What human & What is the interest that will accrue to that human?
Lets say Mohamad (PBUH) ..
He lived poor and died poor .
It was all about God & to live a good life to you & the others (I am talking about Islam & not what Some Muslims do in the name of Islam ) .
It was all about that ,Nothing about him ...
So what was his benefit to invention Islam ?
Could you please answer me .

Last edited by squall-lionheart; 02-20-2012 at 08:12 AM..
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Pflugerville
2,213 posts, read 2,525,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
Lets say Mohamad (PBUH) ..
He lived poor and died poor .
It was all about God & to live a good life to you & the others (I am talking about Islam & not what Some Muslims do in the name of Islam ) .
Nothing about him ...
So what was his benefit to invention Islam ?
Could you please answer me .
Hmmm....why would a man invent a religion and try to get people to do what he says? Why would a human being want to control another human being? I mean, that has NEVER happened in the history of the world, so we have no right to be suspicious of it, hmm?

You say yourself that you cannot apply human notions to god, that you cannot give human characteristics to god. But then you turn around and say that a man CAN INDEED preach the word of god, interpret god's will, translate gods commandments to the rest of us.

Like most religious people, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You don't like people to question the obvious logical flaws of your "god". We are supposed to just ignore the logical flaws because we can't possibly understand god, he is mysterious that way, and we are just puny humans. But when it comes to interpreting gods will, let's say for example, PERSECUTING GAYS (something all of Islam does, not just the few people you keep mentioning) then all of a sudden, Gods will is perfectly clear. Then our limited human mind can understand him just fine. Remind me, what do ALL Islamic countries do to gay people? Hmm? do they give them cookies and milk? You keep saying it's just a "few" muslims that do bad things....but what does the majority of the Muslim world do to their gay and lesbian population? What happens to gays in Egypt and Iran?

Isn't it interesting how we can't understand gods "love" when he allows things like childhood leukemia and genocide. Then we should turn off our brains and accept he has a greater plan. We are human, after all, and we can't understand gods will.

But when it comes to gods "hate", well then it is crystal clear....everyone that is not like us must die. What a wonderful god you worship!!!!

And this is true of pretty much every religion, before you say I am picking on muslims again.

I also noticed that when I pretty much shut down your Mickey Mouse arguments on the nature of god, and how you are an adult that likes to play make believe, you stopped answering me, and started picking on other posters? Why is that, do you think? Is it because you know you are WRONG!? That there is no allah, never has been, never will be, and you are just wasting your life trying to please some make believe entity?
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:35 AM
 
124 posts, read 19,784 times
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If there is evidence a god exists beyond a reasonable doubt..than I will believe a god exists. Would I worship this god? No, especially if it was the god of the bible with all the atrocities, sexism etc there is no way I would worship such an individual regardless if he created me or not.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Dallas
163 posts, read 73,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
The real reason behind "what if" question is to find the real reason behind not believing !!!
Actually, the real reason behind the "what if" was to show that we're being asked to examine a hypothetical that the average theist is unable to consider themselves, and that we actually have the ability to give an honest answer. As Hiker pointed out, I think I did a very poor job of expressing my point.
Quote:
Most of the responses shows that it is not a matter of finding the truth because you have already decided
A pretty large number of the responses came from former theists; speaking personally, after many years of study I found the "truth" I was taught from an early age was anything but.
Quote:
If God do exist you will believe yes but you won't worshep him ..
It is like saying I believe in class exam but I won't study to pass it .
That clearly shows that it is up to you .
This very statement highlights one of the fundamental differences between the theist and atheist mindset. Most of us choose to actually study for the exam rather than pray that we pass instead of study.
Quote:
You have the wright to choose therefore you will be responsible for the outcome of that Choice .
...and so how often do you rehearse how you are going to explain your lack of belief to Jesus, Zeus or Odin if you die and find out that Islam is all wrong? How often do you study the Vedas, the Bible and the Book of Mormon to verify that your belief is correct?
Quote:
I don't want a debate or a lecture here , I just express my honest opinion .
I think you may be in the wrong place if you don't want a debate, but you're most certainly welcome to you opinion.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:07 AM
 
16,310 posts, read 14,834,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
why does he need to be worshipped? what a selfrighteous creature!! that's a human trait, please kiss the ground I walk on!!! more proof that it's all a human invention...
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
He doesn't... we do .
Perhaps your should review the "big 10" rules that you all say are directly from this selfless god, and yet the first 4 are all about kowtowing and worshiping him.

More proof it is all a farce, for the story always changes to fit the goal.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Pflugerville
2,213 posts, read 2,525,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ockhamsrazor View Post
^^^ Agreed.

I would have to say though, if we found out that religion was real, that would also mean heaven and hell were real. Which would also mean that in order to get to heaven we would have to abide by the laws of the religion which was real.....so who in their right mind would not follow the rules, and "worship" if thats part of the rules, in order to go to heaven for eternal salvation? It would be stupid if there were proof of this and to still insist on not following the rules.
I don't agree with that.

Supposedly, according to the myths of most religions, god KNOWS what is in your heart. So not only can he see whether you worship him or not, he can see into your mind and tell if you are enthusiastic as well.

So let's look at the Catholic religion, b/c I am familiar with their Dogma. Their god says that the Dali Lama is going to hell. Their god says that Baptists, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, Secularists, Hindus, Buddhists etc etc, are going to hell. Their god says that all non-catholics are going to hell, regardless of how "good" they were. Their god says being that to get into heaven, you have to worship him and be a CATHOLIC, or else it doesn't matter if you spent your entire life building orphanages, it's to hell you go.

But if you ARE a catholic, and you are truly evil, and you spend your entire life raping children and eating babies....as long as you say you are sorry to a priest...you go to heaven. So...Dali Lama goes to hell, child rapist goes to heaven.

So if there WERE proof that the Catholic god was real, and that Catholic dogma was real....then that god is a real Jerk-ass. And if faced with the choice or worshipping him or going to hell, then sure, logically, you would worship. BUT>>>>>>he would KNOW you thought he was a jerk ass. And no matter how much you worshipped, he would be able to see into your mind and KNOW that you hated him.

So why bother worshipping? He is going to know I think he is a jerk-ass. Worshipping would be an emtpy gesture and I would go to hell regardless, because I didn't have love and fawning adoration in my heart. So why bother? In my mind, it wouldn't be "stupid to not follow the rules" as you say. It would just be avoiding pointless "busy" work.
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Pflugerville
2,213 posts, read 2,525,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ockhamsrazor View Post
Now, thats a real good point.

I guess, personally, if I knew it all was real, I may actually be able to worship it...maybe. Its obviously hard to tell with hypothetical situations, my "heart of hearts" might be swayed if all the proof was there for me to see.
Yeah, I totally see what you are saying. For me, the problem with religion is that god is usually so UNJUST and EVIL, that even if he was real, I would have a hard time getting behind him. If Nazis took over America and said "you WILL wear a brown shirt and join the party" then to save my life or the life of those I cared about, I would probably wear a brown shirt and join the party. But in my heart and in my mind, I wouldn't give in. It becomes tricky with a supernatural being however, that CAN see into your heart and mind.

I would have a real problem worshipping the god of the bible. He is a feckless thug. And since he would see my worship as lip service, and would punish me regardless, then he can kiss my butt. Why go thru the motions?
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
3,928 posts, read 1,838,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squall-lionheart View Post
Lets say Mohamad (PBUH) ..
He lived poor and died poor .
So what was his benefit to invention Islam ?
Well, he got eleven women to marry him, which seems to be common behavior for cult leaders.

No wonder he died poor. If I took eleven women to the mall, I would be poor very quickly.
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:46 PM
 
124 posts, read 19,784 times
Reputation: 50
The thing is even if god turned out to be some super nice benevolent being..there is still no reason to worship him/her/it. If god was very nice and loving, he wouldn't hold us hostage with hell forcing us to worship him. In other words he would just be some kind of supreme being that I would respect for being a "nice being"..and that's about it. Still absolutely no reason for me to *worship*, and if god really existed I doubt he would want us to worship him either. That is a petty human emotion, to gain power and wish to be worshipped.
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