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Does it not ever cross anyone who fancies him or herself (and this isn't aimed at any particular poster) an arrogant elitist, that when compared to certain other people, you may be the ignorant one who's stupid. If one doesn't appreciate being viewed in such a manner (and I assure you it has probably happened), then I'd suggest it's best to stop looking at other people that way.
A little humility is not something to be ashamed of or to be frowned upon. No matter how smart you think you are, there's someone who's smarter (see: "certain other people"). No matter how much you think you know, there's always more you could learn. Nobody is an expert know-it-all on everything imaginable.
Even people who have ideas we know are wrong such as a 6,000 year old earth may not be stupid. They're just unwilling to learn the scientific facts on such matters, not that they're incapable. It's not always easy to gauge what another person's overall cognitive abilities are.
Now, if people want to throw a hissy fit and act offended if you simply refer to them as uneducated, then so be it. Just remember there's also things that you and me are less than adequately educated on as well.
But why is it such that the more I educate myself, the more idiotic some individuals seem to be?
Case and point, a normal work day had been had up until lunch upon which I was confronted by a co-worker who happens to be somewhat of a religious zealot. He inquired as to what my tattoo meant (up-right, waking fish). I explained that its commonly associated with evolutionary biology, Darwinism, etc. (It's an extremely small tattoo on the inside of my wrist, negligible to someone who had not know I gotten it prior.) Once I explained this the conversation took the usual turn down "Why can't you just believe" Ave. upon which I casually blew off several times. Seeing as this guy was relentless in his inquiry, I simply posed the issue of Infinite Regression: "Who made your maker, and who created your makers maker" etc.....His retort "The issue with your types is that you ask too many questions. There are some questions which should actively be avoided, such as your previous one"....
After officially having my mind rocked by ignorance and giving quite the discerning look, I had to re-evaluate my reaction and apologize. I literally looked at the guy as if he were covered in feces and used condoms. It goes without saying that I'm not too fond this intermittent arrogance I sometimes exemplify, but it's proving quite difficult to stave off in contrast to the my insatiable appetite for knowledge.
Am I the only one who sometimes feel guilty for feeling this way? Admittedly, I'm no genius but it seems quite logical to research that which were are ignorant about.
As a former teacher, I admit that anyone who says that certain questions should be avoided is not someone I would apologize too. Of course, if you got loud and obnoxious, then perhaps an apology is in order. It is not in order though for a nasty look when someone says something this ridiculous. Certainly work is not a good place for this kind of conversation, but he did bring it up.
I would suggest avoiding this coworker in future if it is at all possible.
.....His retort "The issue with your types is that you ask too many questions. There are some questions which should actively be avoided, such as your previous one"....
Well if that's the only issue with "your types", you got off easy on that one!
I am always questioning things, whether or not there are answers available doesn't matter. It keeps your brain cells fresh and alive.
You will always find something new to learn, and your lesson that day was unfortunately a social one.
It's not the ignorance you find distasteful, but, ironically, the arrogance. This theologue thinks you should alter your beliefs simply because those are the beliefs he holds. I know plenty of ignorant religious people who keep it in their pants. It's the ones who insist you join them in ignorance who are shrill.
Good point. Arrogance in that context comes, not from the tone, but the unwillingness to listen and reasonably consider the merits of the other person's case.
It goes without saying that I'm not too fond this intermittent arrogance I sometimes exemplify
It is good that you recognize this fault of yours, Mike. From my experience, recognizing a problem is 95% along the way toward solving the problem.
I think many of us were more arrogant when we were young, but, as we get older, we become more accepting of people who are different from us.
I know bible-bangers can be irritating, but look at it this way. If you saw a child with a broken arm, you would probably try to help him. The bible-bangers see us as lost souls heading toward damnation in hell, and they want to help us.
But why is it such that the more I educate myself, the more idiotic some individuals seem to be?
Case and point, a normal work day had been had up until lunch upon which I was confronted by a co-worker who happens to be somewhat of a religious zealot. He inquired as to what my tattoo meant (up-right, waking fish). I explained that its commonly associated with evolutionary biology, Darwinism, etc. (It's an extremely small tattoo on the inside of my wrist, negligible to someone who had not know I gotten it prior.) Once I explained this the conversation took the usual turn down "Why can't you just believe" Ave. upon which I casually blew off several times. Seeing as this guy was relentless in his inquiry, I simply posed the issue of Infinite Regression: "Who made your maker, and who created your makers maker" etc.....His retort "The issue with your types is that you ask too many questions. There are some questions which should actively be avoided, such as your previous one"....
After officially having my mind rocked by ignorance and giving quite the discerning look, I had to re-evaluate my reaction and apologize. I literally looked at the guy as if he were covered in feces and used condoms. It goes without saying that I'm not too fond this intermittent arrogance I sometimes exemplify, but it's proving quite difficult to stave off in contrast to the my insatiable appetite for knowledge.
Am I the only one who sometimes feel guilty for feeling this way? Admittedly, I'm no genius but it seems quite logical to research that which were are ignorant about.
No, you aren't. I try very hard to keep my cool when conversing over things I'm passionate about, but I get "animated" very quickly. It's not easy for me to keep my cool, especially when confronted by arrogant ignorance.
But it's not just conversations. I can't watch Kent Hovind videos, for example, because the only response I can muster towards that absolute inanity is a very strong desire to rip out his vocal chords so he can never speak again. I also don't ever plan to visit Ken Hamm's creation museum because I fear I'd be arrested for vandalism.
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Originally Posted by Djuna
I make no apology for my arrogance. I am evolving whereas half the morons in this world are stuck back in Neanderthal times. Sorry, I am simply better, if that is arrogant, so be it. I have no time for fake humility although I do hide my sneering well
Some humility would do you good. Instead of dwelling on all that you do know, instead focus on what you don't know. That's how I expand my knowledge.
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Originally Posted by achickenchaser
Does it not ever cross anyone who fancies him or herself (and this isn't aimed at any particular poster) an arrogant elitist, that when compared to certain other people, you may be the ignorant one who's stupid. If one doesn't appreciate being viewed in such a manner (and I assure you it has probably happened), then I'd suggest it's best to stop looking at other people that way.
Agreed.
Quote:
Even people who have ideas we know are wrong such as a 6,000 year old earth may not be stupid. They're just unwilling to learn the scientific facts on such matters, not that they're incapable. It's not always easy to gauge what another person's overall cognitive abilities are.
I have to disagree with you, here. Talking about people who are not socially isolated from the rest of the world (the vast majority of humanity), if they are Young-Earth Creationists, then, in my opinion, they are either stupid or dishonest. There is no excuse in this day and age to believe such insanely idiotic crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD1978
It's not the ignorance you find distasteful, but, ironically, the arrogance. This theologue thinks you should alter your beliefs simply because those are the beliefs he holds. I know plenty of ignorant religious people who keep it in their pants. It's the ones who insist you join them in ignorance who are shrill.
Exactly. Ignorance is one thing. Every single one of us is ignorant about something. It's the arrogance that causes the problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45
It is good that you recognize this fault of yours, Mike. From my experience, recognizing a problem is 95% along the way toward solving the problem.
I think many of us were more arrogant when we were young, but, as we get older, we become more accepting of people who are different from us.
I mean... I'm only 24, so I can't say for sure, but I don't think I will ever "accept" Young-Earth Creationists... maybe we should make a new term for that... YECophobia... I'm a YECophobe, and I'm damn proud of it.
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I know bible-bangers can be irritating, but look at it this way. If you saw a child with a broken arm, you would probably try to help him. The bible-bangers see us as lost souls heading toward damnation in hell, and they want to help us.
This is a bit like Penn Jillette's "truck" analogy. The problem is, there is no truck. If a non-existent truck is about to hit me, let it. I'm sure non-existent people will cry non-existent tears over my non-existent body while non-existent doctors show up to rush me to a non-existent hospital, where they will declare non-existent me dead, and my non-existent family and non-existent friends can hold a non-existent funeral, to bury me in a non-existent casket 6 feet under the non-existent ground...
Meanwhile, back in reality, I'll continue to live my life as none of that actuallyhappened.
A good start, but many people define education as getting to a point where you realize how much YOU still do not know and have to learn. A truly educated person sees how much they themselves still have to learn. Judging your own education by how little other people seem to know simply means you are not quite there yet.
That said, I do often share your disappointment at not just the level some people have failed to reach, but how they almost revel in the level they have chosen to stop at. Not asking questions or learning new things is, to some, almost something to be proud of. It is more a general disappointment in our species rather than in any particular individual however.
I'm most certainly aware of how little I know which is my motivation for constant knowledge seeking. My point was simply to express the disdain I have for those who seem totally ok shuffling along in life, not ever questioning anything.
As a former teacher, I admit that anyone who says that certain questions should be avoided is not someone I would apologize too. Of course, if you got loud and obnoxious, then perhaps an apology is in order. It is not in order though for a nasty look when someone says something this ridiculous. Certainly work is not a good place for this kind of conversation, but he did bring it up.
I would suggest avoiding this coworker in future if it is at all possible.
We were actually in my office, my personality prohibits me from raising my voice. I've never been that way.
He stopped in to drop off some schematics, I grabbed them with my left hand and he saw the itty bitty tat upon which the assumptions and insinuations began to fly. I was calm the entire time and so was he.
I mean... I'm only 24, so I can't say for sure, but I don't think I will ever "accept" Young-Earth Creationists... maybe we should make a new term for that... YECophobia... I'm a YECophobe, and I'm damn proud of it.
Don't worry. As you grow up, you will learn to accept almost eneryone who treats you fairly, even if you do not share the same beliefs.
You will find that it is no fun having hard feelings against other people.
Don't worry. As you grow up, you will learn to accept almost eneryone who treats you fairly, even if you do not share the same beliefs.
You will find that it is no fun having hard feelings against other people.
I have a major problem with people who believe in and proselytize something that is so obviously false...
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