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A world-view by definition is A particular philosophy of life or conception of the world. Yup, Atheism fits nicely there. Saying it is a world view isn't saying it is a religion.
One must be organized for it to be a "world view".
It is a personal view. In my mind, the concept of a god is so utterly incomprehension and alien to reason, rational, and counter to all the evidence of why we exist, or has any influence upon anything.
I don't know why you call yourself an atheist, and I question if you really are, as you seem so intent on codifying it into a box or category like religions. Atheism is just a natural free state of mind, a mind unhindered without the baggage of gods and all the silliness that goes along with them.
Perhaps this is why you will find that most atheists support freedoms for all, where theists willingly become surrender monkeys to governments and strive to impose restrictions on everyone. The caged bird wants to see everyone in a cage, and as an atheist I refuse to go into the cage.
That is my personal view, and even if millions share the same view, then it is just the personal view of millions. It is not a world view, subject to being controlled by anyone or any group.
One must be organized for it to be a "world view".
It is a personal view. In my mind, the concept of a god is so utterly incomprehension and alien to reason, rational, and counter to all the evidence of why we exist, or has any influence upon anything.
I don't know why you call yourself an atheist, and I question if you really are, as you seem so intent on codifying it into a box or category like religions. AAtheism is just a natural free state of mind, a mind unhindered without the baggage of gods and all the silliness that goes along with them.theism is just a natural free state of mind, a mind unhindered without the baggage of gods and all the silliness that goes along with them.
Perhaps this is why you will find that most atheists support freedoms for all, where theists willingly become surrender monkeys to governments and strive to impose restrictions on everyone. The caged bird wants to see everyone in a cage, and as an atheist I refuse to go into the cage.
That is my personal view, and even if millions share the same view, then it is just the personal view of millions. It is not a world view, subject to being controlled by anyone or any group.
One must be organized for it to be a "world view".
Ok, I do agree there and can see why it isn't a world view.
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It is a personal view. In my mind, the concept of a god is so utterly incomprehension and alien to reason, rational, and counter to all the evidence of why we exist, or has any influence upon anything.
Now, couldn't this be considered a philosophy? Even a personal one?
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I don't know why you call yourself an atheist, and I question if you really are, as you seem so intent on codifying it into a box or category like religions. Atheism is just a natural free state of mind, a mind unhindered without the baggage of gods and all the silliness that goes along with them.
You are free to question if I am an atheist all you want. I am just new to admitting that I don't believe in god(s) and other supernatural entities. A person usually doesn't just go from, "there are/is a god(s)" to, "there is are no god(s)". It has taken years for me to be honest with myself. I will admit that at times my mind is still somewhat stuck in it's old beliefs. Every now and then I find my self thinking stuff like, "God, what is going on with the world?" In my mind I am addressing this question to something that isn't there. Each time I catch myself and think, "WTF? Why do I keep doing that!"
I know that it is just the brainwashing working it's way out. They really know how to get that crap into your head.
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Perhaps this is why you will find that most atheists support freedoms for all, where theists willingly become surrender monkeys to governments and strive to impose restrictions on everyone. The caged bird wants to see everyone in a cage, and as an atheist I refuse to go into the cage.
I agree with you fully here.
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That is my personal view, and even if millions share the same view, then it is just the personal view of millions. It is not a world view, subject to being controlled by anyone or any group.
Again, could this no be seen as a philosophy? Even if it's a personal one?Not trying to debate, just trying to understand.
Again, could this no be seen as a philosophy? Even if it's a personal one?Not trying to debate, just trying to understand.
Well given that we are freely labeling many things as a philosophy, my philosophy is that I need to head out to $2.50 pint night at one of the local breweries and quaff down some seriously good IPA..
If not believing in gods is a philosophy then so is not believing in three headed dragons, centaurs, or any other fantasy creatures ....
Well, now I feel stupid. That makes sense. I always say the same thing about atheism being a religion. Don't know why my mind blanked that out for this.
Ash, you folks have some pretty good IPA over there.
Gplex, until you can actually show that you are reading what I type, I can't continue this argument. It would be pointless for me to defend something that I didn't even say.
Seriously? You know why I like debating on forums.. because what you have said in the past is 'on record'.
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
Why are some atheists so entitled? They come off as arrogant as the worst fundi-chritsians.
Claiming a special rights to indoctrinate children, shoot doctors, deny equal rights to homosexual, pass laws allowing faith base schools to teach girls to be subservient. This must be some arrogance behind this... What about the most arrogant belief of them all, this entire universe is made just for YOU.
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
As an atheist, I want to be left alone. I want to be able to not believe in whatever I want. I want to be able to focus on real science and history without someone spewing religious mumbo jumbo. Since I want this, I will do the same for the religious. I won't force my views on them, belittle them by making a joke about them or degrading them. I respect their choice to believe what they want. That is their choice. Even when they are trying to pass laws that are full of biblical fallacies and teach false history or science, I will never stoop so low as to bash them or make fun of them.
By being on the attack, it makes you no better than the worst of them.
This is one I find the most disgusting. Criticizing a religion or idea, is no way equivalent to 911, the witch killing in Africa, the attempt to indoctrinate other peoples children..
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
Just because the religious stoop to that low level, doesn't mean we should. We claim to be smarter than them, I laugh at that. It's like both sides is throwing fecal matter and saying theirs is better, prove it. You can't prove that by hurling the same insults. You prove that by making scientific discoveries, by uncovering the past, and by showing that you are more civil and accepting of others, even if you don't agree with them.
You don't get it do you. Saying something factual like 'we are apes' is considered an insult, 'we will stand as equals' is considered a insult' in some parts of islamic culture, as evident of the tweeting incident.
If we always ran on the idea that we shouldn't "insult" others, then we wouldn't say anything...
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
The questions: Am I wrong? Do you feel that atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious? Why? What's the point? How does it help progress anything? How does it make you any different than the WBC?
Anyone has the right to "bash and belittle" anything they want! IT'S CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
The difference is, I don't see the religious folks out there as a threat. Most of the ones you have to worry about are shunned by other theists, they are undereducated, and reject science. This puts us at a great advantage. We do accept science, science holds the power to cure disease, flatten cities, and take us to the greatest depths and amazing heights. If the fundies raise to power, it won't last long. If you followed history you would see that the walls of the christian nation and other religions are beginning to crumble.
That's because you're not the affected.. You're not the homosexual being blocked from marrying the one you love, you're not the child being robbed of a proper education. You're not the way having rights stripped from you.
Just seems very selfish to me.
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
Those that think they need to throw insults and belittle theists, actually slow the progression of atheism down.
Again, atheism isn't anything as I've explained before.
This is just the vomit on the first page of this thread. All you do is pretend to be more educated then everyone. I'm not anything special, but guess what, neither are you.
The problem with the freethinker movement is people like you, who are over sensitive to the religious emotional response, and in fact would allow the loonies to do some crazy things before stepping in and interfering.
Criticizing is one of the most important tools to get people thinking.
Then we are well on the way to calling 'judging' by a lot of other terms until there is nothing left to call 'judging'.
In fact the constructive criticism, assessment, jealousy (or so it often seems -especially to those on the end of criticism) and indeed the fault -finding which is what appears to be meant in the Biblical term can be the product of jealousy or spite, lack of understanding or sympathy (walk a mile in their shoes) bias or lack of tolerance or just poor judgement and arrogance (and one can get that from a boss of friend - or at least colleague) and to sum up with regard to your point, whether it is done rightly or wrongly depends on some sound reasoning, tolerance of often sympathy and can apply to all the kinds of judgement named so far.
But to get back to my original point, that does not mean that it shouldn't be done. In fact it should and must and is not a question of who has the authority - we all do, but who (make that 'how') can do it justly.
The only thing I can say is that if you don't care if you are judged then go ahead. But it's been my experience that when judged the judger never knows all the facts anyway because people do not reveal the whole truth. And unless a person is jealous or insecure in some manner they do not care to judge.
Seriously? You know why I like debating on forums.. because what you have said in the past is 'on record'.
I know this, this is why I told you many times that you claimed I have said something when I hadn't. You claim on many occasions that I bash your intelligence. I never did this, and if you read what I wrote in context you would see this.
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Claiming a special rights to indoctrinate children, shoot doctors, deny equal rights to homosexual, pass laws allowing faith base schools to teach girls to be subservient. This must be some arrogance behind this... What about the most arrogant belief of them all, this entire universe is made just for YOU.
There are several levels of arrogance, the worst is usually accompanied bu ignorance.
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I disagree, critic using humor is a great tool, how else can you show how silly something is, if you can't 'bash' it.
I am starting to agree with you on this. I think it is ok to bash the idea, but leave the person alone. Call the belief stupid, just not the person who believes it.
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This is one I find the most disgusting. Criticizing a religion or idea, is no way equivalent to 911, the witch killing in Africa, the attempt to indoctrinate other peoples children..
Way to pick out two extremes first. The first two examples you give are terrible, but stuff like that isn't going to be stopped by verbally attacking the believer or the belief. The only solution for things like 9/11, bombings, and witch burnings is a bullet to the head. You can't fix crazy. Now, things like indoctrinating people is in no way comparable to the other two examples you give. Way to devalue life by comparing it to learning fairy tales. The indoctrination of children is bad, and I am against it completely. I like how you leave out things that are more common, like christian protesters, The WBC, bias news anchors, and the normal everyday religious banter that we hear almost each day. On this site, we see it all the time. This is what I was referring to, the common stuff, not the extremes.
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You don't get it do you. Saying something factual like 'we are apes' is considered an insult, 'we will stand as equals' is considered a insult' in some parts of islamic culture, as evident of the tweeting incident.
If we always ran on the idea that we shouldn't "insult" others, then we wouldn't say anything...
It's insulting to them, so what? I am talking about when what is a called a reasonable persons view. It's when another person who shares similar beliefs or non-beliefs as you and they deem what you say to be insulting and ignorant, then more than likely it is.
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Anyone has the right to "bash and belittle" anything they want! IT'S CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!
And that isn't 100% true. Anyone that is found in breach of the peace can be given a ticket or arrested for doing so. Sadly I had to enforce this law many times where I used to work. Someone would be preaching that god does not exist and we would have to kick them off, I hated to do it, but I didn't want to lose my job. Most of the time they would leave without arguing much. When we did this to a person preaching fire and brimstone, we would ask them to leave and most times we would have to remove them from the property.
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That's because you're not the affected.. You're not the homosexual being blocked from marrying the one you love, you're not the child being robbed of a proper education. You're not the way having rights stripped from you.
Just seems very selfish to me.
There you go again, claiming to know the whole story. You don't know what rights I might have being stripped from me. You don't know me anymore than you know a person who believes in their god.
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Again, atheism isn't anything as I've explained before.
Actually, atheism is a lack of belief in god(s). So it IS something. So when I said it slows atheism down, what I was saying is it is slowing the growth of people who lack a belief in god(s).
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This is just the vomit on the first page of this thread. All you do is pretend to be more educated then everyone. I'm not anything special, but guess what, neither are you.
Never said I was. I am still a pretty new deconvert and atheist.
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The problem with the freethinker movement is people like you, who are over sensitive to the religious emotional response, and in fact would allow the loonies to do some crazy things before stepping in and interfering.
I could say the same about you being insensitive to the religious emotional response. My experience is that if you play on their ego by not being insensitive you have a better chance at opening someone to the truth.
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Criticizing is one of the most important tools to get people thinking.
If you want to get them thinking about what they will say next, yes it is. To get them to question their beliefs? No, it isn't. I hardly see the benefit. If you could provide me with an example I would love to be proven wrong. Give me an example of someone reconverting and claiming a lack of belief in god(s) because of criticizing or actual insults(not perceived)?
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