Why are some atheists... (rejecting, followers, Muslim, evidence)

[Gplex]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

I know this, this is why I told you many times that you claimed I have said something when I hadn't. You claim on many occasions that I bash your intelligence. I never did this, and if you read what I wrote in context you would see this.

There are several levels of arrogance, the worst is usually accompanied bu ignorance.

I am starting to agree with you on this. I think it is ok to bash the idea, but leave the person alone. Call the belief stupid, just not the person who believes it.

Way to pick out two extremes first. The first two examples you give are terrible, but stuff like that isn't going to be stopped by verbally attacking the believer or the belief. The only solution for things like 9/11, bombings, and witch burnings is a bullet to the head. You can't fix crazy. Now, things like indoctrinating people is in no way comparable to the other two examples you give. Way to devalue life by comparing it to learning fairy tales. The indoctrination of children is bad, and I am against it completely. I like how you leave out things that are more common, like christian protesters, The WBC, bias news anchors, and the normal everyday religious banter that we hear almost each day. On this site, we see it all the time. This is what I was referring to, the common stuff, not the extremes.


It's insulting to them, so what? I am talking about when what is a called a reasonable persons view. It's when another person who shares similar beliefs or non-beliefs as you and they deem what you say to be insulting and ignorant, then more than likely it is.

And that isn't 100% true. Anyone that is found in breach of the peace can be given a ticket or arrested for doing so. Sadly I had to enforce this law many times where I used to work. Someone would be preaching that god does not exist and we would have to kick them off, I hated to do it, but I didn't want to lose my job. Most of the time they would leave without arguing much. When we did this to a person preaching fire and brimstone, we would ask them to leave and most times we would have to remove them from the property.

There you go again, claiming to know the whole story. You don't know what rights I might have being stripped from me. You don't know me anymore than you know a person who believes in their god.

Actually, atheism is a lack of belief in god(s). So it IS something. So when I said it slows atheism down, what I was saying is it is slowing the growth of people who lack a belief in god(s).

Never said I was. I am still a pretty new deconvert and atheist.
I could say the same about you being insensitive to the religious emotional response. My experience is that if you play on their ego by not being insensitive you have a better chance at opening someone to the truth.

If you want to get them thinking about what they will say next, yes it is. To get them to question their beliefs? No, it isn't. I hardly see the benefit. If you could provide me with an example I would love to be proven wrong. Give me an example of someone reconverting and claiming a lack of belief in god(s) because of criticizing or actual insults(not perceived)?

I never said that , I said you make an assumption of my knowledge, don't make me go back and quote you.

Yes, protecting ideas only leads to infringing on our freedoms.

No! I was religious, I know how confusing it is, and so should you if you were religious, they think they are doing good. That their actions will lead to the overall good to the universe. They don't deserve a bullet to the head. This must be a last resort to stopping those trying to destroy civilization, religious or not.
These are the first post I've read of yours, that I can currently recall, and these are the arguments I'm 'bashing' as you like to say.

That's true, I either could have ran on the assumption that you didn't care about your rights being stripped etc, because you either don't care about human rights, and like living as a slave, OR you are not affected, I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Atheism is not a belief system, it's a lack of a certain belief system. Not having something doesn't mean you have something exactly what you don't have.

You were doing so good, they have a emotional response in an attempt to protect an idea. Ideas shouldn't be respected and protected yada yada yada...

I don't have a problem getting religious to think, it's the other freethinkers that prove to be a pain..

[raison_d'etre]

OK... well, I can officially say that I take back what I said about using sarcasm towards religion and insulting said religions. I just had the most blind faith based argument with an old friend ever.

I posted a video on Facebook titled, "The most astounding fact" that Asheville Native brought to my attention. Within minutes of posting the video this old friend of mine posted that I was a terrible person for spreading lies like this. I have posted several other videos, quotes, and status updates that don't go along with christian beliefs. This is the first he responded to.

When I asked him why I was a terrible person. He told me it was because I was purposely trying to direct people away from the truth.

... I will just skip to the end of the 56 comment discussion between the two of us.

He eventually stated that the earth was only 6000 years old, that any and all "evidence" we have found that contradicts this is a lie and/or the work of Satan to deceive us. He said the historic community was planting false evidence.

I couldn't resist the temptation(I am a sinner after all), I responded as follows:

"Yes, all historians and studies of the past have nothing better to do then dig holes in the ground and plant fake evidence and then cover it up. They love to build monolithic structures and then bury them with dirt, plant grass, and shrubs. They do this so many years later someone "stumbles upon" them and digs them up and claim they are older than 6000 years old. It's also true that archeologists found the garden of Eden and destroyed it so they could cover up the existence of god. They really love making fossils and then planting them for others to discover. They do this so that they can meet up in their secret churches that worship Satan and laugh maniacally while getting wasted on fermented baby blood and sacrifice virgins."

Maybe a bit overkill?

[Gplex]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

OK... well, I can officially say that I take back what I said about using sarcasm towards religion and insulting said religions. I just had the most blind faith based argument with an old friend ever.

I posted a video on Facebook titled, "The most astounding fact" that Asheville Native brought to my attention. Within minutes of posting the video this old friend of mine posted that I was a terrible person for spreading lies like this. I have posted several other videos, quotes, and status updates that don't go along with christian beliefs. This is the first he responded to.

When I asked him why I was a terrible person. He told me it was because I was purposely trying to direct people away from the truth.

... I will just skip to the end of the 56 comment discussion between the two of us.

He eventually stated that the earth was only 6000 years old, that any and all "evidence" we have found that contradicts this is a lie and/or the work of Satan to deceive us. He said the historic community was planting false evidence.

I couldn't resist the temptation(I am a sinner after all), I responded as follows:

"Yes, all historians and studies of the past have nothing better to do then dig holes in the ground and plant fake evidence and then cover it up. They love to build monolithic structures and then bury them with dirt, plant grass, and shrubs. They do this so many years later someone "stumbles upon" them and digs them up and claim they are older than 6000 years old. It's also true that archeologists found the garden of Eden and destroyed it so they could cover up the existence of god. They really love making fossils and then planting them for others to discover. They do this so that they can meet up in their secret churches that worship Satan and laugh maniacally while getting wasted on fermented baby blood and sacrifice virgins."

Maybe a bit overkill?

It's up to you, I think you should discuss the topic face to face...

[KCfromNC]

N/M caught up with the rest of the thread.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

I posted a video on Facebook titled, "The most astounding fact" that Asheville Native brought to my attention. Within minutes of posting the video this old friend of mine posted that I was a terrible person for spreading lies like this. I have posted several other videos, quotes, and status updates that don't go along with christian beliefs. This is the first he responded to.

Here is how I would have responded

[Dreison Rhodes]

Hummmmm, Thomas Jefferson did not trust religion, he had seen first hand what happens to society when religion is allowed to pass laws, thus, his little thing about separation of church and state. I disbelieve in all of the gods equally, I don't really care what others believe, it is none of my business, unless they start preaching at me or trying to pass laws that would entail their beliefs becoming part of the law of the land. I would like to get a law passed that states "Any church that dabbles in politics in any way or fashion will have their tax free status revoked."

[Frozenyo]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

"Yes, all historians and studies of the past have nothing better to do then dig holes in the ground and plant fake evidence and then cover it up. They love to build monolithic structures and then bury them with dirt, plant grass, and shrubs. They do this so many years later someone "stumbles upon" them and digs them up and claim they are older than 6000 years old. It's also true that archeologists found the garden of Eden and destroyed it so they could cover up the existence of god. They really love making fossils and then planting them for others to discover. They do this so that they can meet up in their secret churches that worship Satan and laugh maniacally while getting wasted on fermented baby blood and sacrifice virgins."

Maybe a bit overkill?

Nope, that's the only way to respond to such nonsense.

[raison_d'etre]

Is there anyway to recant everything I said on this thread about atheists being belittling and condescending?

Cause I do.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

My we seem a bit sensitive, you didn't ask a question, you were preaching. My question was to determine that, and to see if you actually are paying attention to what is going on in our society and government.

If the theist would treat their religion like their wanker, and keep it private, don't pull it out in public, and especially don't attempt to force it on anyone, then there is no problem. Except that theists do pull it out, wave it around, and force it upon all by evoking their ancient ignorance and bigotry into law.

While much of your tax dollars go to fund religious wars.

How many laws do you live under that are solely based on religious beliefs, from blue laws to whom you could love without harassment? Do you even know?

It a slippery slope my friend, greased by the agenda of ignorance.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

And that is why I speak up

I'm just going to second this excellent post.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

Is there anyway to recant everything I said on this thread about atheists being belittling and condescending?

Cause I do.

LOL, I know. We all want to take back at least a 1/4 of our life at times. It's just human nature.

Sometimes I get angry when looking back through my history. Killing Indians for God, burning witches, hanging black men, beating children. I admit, it gets the best of me and I say things I regret to those who believe and are still currently harming a section of society because of their religious beliefs, I worry how far they will go if left alone. I think that's human as well. We get upset, say things we don't mean. But, even though God isn't a lifestyle for me, I still forgive others personally because I understand them, I am one.