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Old 06-24-2012, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,932,702 times
Reputation: 441

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Why are some atheists so entitled? They come off as arrogant as the worst fundi-chritsians. I think atheism is something people have to come to on THEIR own. It isn't something that should be forced. Making fun of or degrading those that believe in various faiths only makes you, Speaking medically here, resemble the opening of the rectum.

As an atheist, I want to be left alone. I want to be able to not believe in whatever I want. I want to be able to focus on real science and history without someone spewing religious mumbo jumbo. Since I want this, I will do the same for the religious. I won't force my views on them, belittle them by making a joke about them or degrading them. I respect their choice to believe what they want. That is their choice. Even when they are trying to pass laws that are full of biblical fallacies and teach false history or science, I will never stoop so low as to bash them or make fun of them.

I ask that other atheists do the same. One reason I had a hard time coming to accept that I was an atheist is that most atheist I know are jerks. I was ashamed to have been associated with the religious jerks, why would I want to join another group that is just like them? I guess this is why I associate as a free-thinker and not an atheist.

Am I wrong? Do you feel that atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious? Why? What's the point? How does it help progress anything? How does it make you any different than the WBC?
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:39 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,232,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
As an atheist, I want to be left alone.
And how is that working out for you?
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,932,702 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
And how is that working out for you?
Pretty well actually. I don't take general comments as a personal attack. I have had people tell me I am wrong, I tell them that I respect their opinion, but until they give me a reason not to trust science and history then I will always be this way.

By being on the attack, it makes you no better than the worst of them. You will never turn ears towards you with insults, only education can do that.

Just because the religious stoop to that low level, doesn't mean we should. We claim to be smarter than them, I laugh at that. It's like both sides is throwing fecal matter and saying theirs is better, prove it. You can't prove that by hurling the same insults. You prove that by making scientific discoveries, by uncovering the past, and by showing that you are more civil and accepting of others, even if you don't agree with them.

And unless you have a valid answer, please stay out of the debate. I won't tolerate condescending remarks.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:04 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,232,954 times
Reputation: 8261
My we seem a bit sensitive, you didn't ask a question, you were preaching. My question was to determine that, and to see if you actually are paying attention to what is going on in our society and government.

If the theist would treat their religion like their wanker, and keep it private, don't pull it out in public, and especially don't attempt to force it on anyone, then there is no problem. Except that theists do pull it out, wave it around, and force it upon all by evoking their ancient ignorance and bigotry into law.

While much of your tax dollars go to fund religious wars.

How many laws do you live under that are solely based on religious beliefs, from blue laws to whom you could love without harassment? Do you even know?

It a slippery slope my friend, greased by the agenda of ignorance.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

And that is why I speak up
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,089 posts, read 10,606,893 times
Reputation: 13438
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Do you feel that atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious? Why? What's the point? How does it help progress anything? How does it make you any different than the WBC?
Of course atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious, and the religious have the right to bash and belittle us.

Does it advance our cause? Does it help people come to think the way we do? No, but that is another question entirely.

What we don't have a right to do is use the government to advance our views. Neither do the religious, but religious conservatives have no difficulty using their numbers to do just that. Maybe if we didn't have the government and most of society pushing so hard to foster religious views atheists would be less likely to come across as people with chips on their shoulder.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Columbia, California
6,662 posts, read 25,340,306 times
Reputation: 5067
There are a**holes on both sides of the bible.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:46 PM
 
34,462 posts, read 8,876,928 times
Reputation: 4786
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Why are some atheists so entitled? They come off as arrogant as the worst fundi-chritsians. I think atheism is something people have to come to on THEIR own. It isn't something that should be forced. Making fun of or degrading those that believe in various faiths only makes you, Speaking medically here, resemble the opening of the rectum.

As an atheist, I want to be left alone. I want to be able to not believe in whatever I want. I want to be able to focus on real science and history without someone spewing religious mumbo jumbo. Since I want this, I will do the same for the religious. I won't force my views on them, belittle them by making a joke about them or degrading them. I respect their choice to believe what they want. That is their choice. Even when they are trying to pass laws that are full of biblical fallacies and teach false history or science, I will never stoop so low as to bash them or make fun of them.

I ask that other atheists do the same. One reason I had a hard time coming to accept that I was an atheist is that most atheist I know are jerks. I was ashamed to have been associated with the religious jerks, why would I want to join another group that is just like them? I guess this is why I associate as a free-thinker and not an atheist.

Am I wrong? Do you feel that atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious? Why? What's the point? How does it help progress anything? How does it make you any different than the WBC?
While I may have wished that some atheists expressed themselves in a less arrogant (perhaps) tone, I have considered this idea of just not believing and let other believe what the like. But the I am quite convinced that it is right and necessary to speak out.

Because religion dominates and, if we do nothing, it will dominate more. Even if there was no threat of forcing it on others through Law, interference in education, politics and the workplace, it is necessary to speak out because, frankly, the rationalist view is the better based in the only methods of obtaining reliable data and reaching reliable conclusions - validated evidence and sound reasoning. Not through Faith and reliance on a lot of conflicting Holy Books.

Atheism is still a word with a lot of negative press-baggage. Even if I was not convinced that a rationalist worldview would be more right in itself and better for everyone (even theists as none could threaten to dominate and try to encroach on the others) I would have to advocate speaking out in every way possible to redress the balance of that very negative image.

We reason better, we are often more tolerant. While we don't oppose chunks of science wholesale because it conflicts with some faith of our, we demand a lot more rigorous validation of the data because that is the only kind that can really be believed.

I wish it were possible to just set out a case and the theists to look and say 'Yes that seems to stack up..' but they do not. The response is so often to accuse us of bias, blindness and even lying. Of atheism being illogical, based on nothing reliable and just denial of what is evidently true. Not just here, but everywhere. On Internet, in the media and from the pulpit. But the fact is that it is so very often the other way around.

The irritation caused by this can make us very sharp at times. Sharper than I would like in myself. Sometimes the arguments produced are so nonsensical that mockery is the only response it deserves. I have sometimes been reproved for spending too much time seriously debating what seems like sheer fantasy.

The reason why is that, to leave it unanswered gives it the benefit of the remark that Thomas More makes in 'Man for all seasons' 'Silence gives assent'. We are obliged to speak out and mockery, while it is often more effective in countering a faith -based viewpoint than reasoned argument, does not show why it is tosh.

Succinctly, we cannot be silent. We speak out because we have to. At the risk of sounding insufferably arrogant and absurdly pompous, the world needs us. It doesn't know that it needs us, but it does.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,900 posts, read 18,450,622 times
Reputation: 13735
Quote:
Originally Posted by raison_d'etre View Post
Why are some atheists so entitled? They come off as arrogant as the worst fundi-chritsians. I think atheism is something people have to come to on THEIR own. It isn't something that should be forced. Making fun of or degrading those that believe in various faiths only makes you, Speaking medically here, resemble the opening of the rectum.

As an atheist, I want to be left alone. I want to be able to not believe in whatever I want. I want to be able to focus on real science and history without someone spewing religious mumbo jumbo. Since I want this, I will do the same for the religious. I won't force my views on them, belittle them by making a joke about them or degrading them. I respect their choice to believe what they want. That is their choice. Even when they are trying to pass laws that are full of biblical fallacies and teach false history or science, I will never stoop so low as to bash them or make fun of them.

I ask that other atheists do the same. One reason I had a hard time coming to accept that I was an atheist is that most atheist I know are jerks. I was ashamed to have been associated with the religious jerks, why would I want to join another group that is just like them? I guess this is why I associate as a free-thinker and not an atheist.

Am I wrong? Do you feel that atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious? Why? What's the point? How does it help progress anything? How does it make you any different than the WBC?
I've noticed atheism is a continuum, not a category.

On one side, there are some atheists who have no problem whatsoever that everyone around them doesn't believe as they do and hardly even worry about it. Hell, there are even plenty of "closet atheists" who practice and even take important leadership roles in theistic religions completely free of personal conflict.

On the other side there are "foaming at the mouth" fundamentalist atheists who will punch you in the face if your say "God bless you" when they sneeze, will sneak out in the middle of the night to cut down crosses in sight of the public thoroughfare and make sure they never spend a single cent that hasn't had the "in god we trust" motto carefully ground off the coin or obscured on their dollar bills.

And there are all kinds in-between, just like theistic religion.

Also, it's interesting to note the fact that many hardcore "fundamentalist atheists" have "escaped" from fundamentalist religions too... with an especially large ax to grind because of it.

Once a fundie... always a fundie, just with a different "religion", I suppose.

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Old 06-24-2012, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,932,702 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
My we seem a bit sensitive, you didn't ask a question, you were preaching. My question was to determine that, and to see if you actually are paying attention to what is going on in our society and government.

If the theist would treat their religion like their wanker, and keep it private, don't pull it out in public, and especially don't attempt to force it on anyone, then there is no problem. Except that theists do pull it out, wave it around, and force it upon all by evoking their ancient ignorance and bigotry into law.

While much of your tax dollars go to fund religious wars.

How many laws do you live under that are solely based on religious beliefs, from blue laws to whom you could love without harassment? Do you even know?

It a slippery slope my friend, greased by the agenda of ignorance.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

And that is why I speak up
The questions: Am I wrong? Do you feel that atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious? Why? What's the point? How does it help progress anything? How does it make you any different than the WBC?

The difference is, I don't see the religious folks out there as a threat. Most of the ones you have to worry about are shunned by other theists, they are undereducated, and reject science. This puts us at a great advantage. We do accept science, science holds the power to cure disease, flatten cities, and take us to the greatest depths and amazing heights. If the fundies raise to power, it won't last long. If you followed history you would see that the walls of the christian nation and other religions are beginning to crumble.

I have seen the way some extreme atheists speak up, they look as undereducated as the extreme theists. They spew out garbage without a full understanding of what they speak of, they feel that "others" are out to get them and destroy their way of life.

People are waking up, science is speaking louder than myth. It will take some time, but eventually the free-thinkers will outnumber the faithfully blind. Like the lifeforms on this rock, societies evolve, if they didn't we would still be living in huts in Africa.

Those that think they need to throw insults and belittle theists, actually slow the progression of atheism down.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Washingtonville
2,506 posts, read 1,932,702 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Of course atheists have a right to bash and belittle the religious, and the religious have the right to bash and belittle us.

Does it advance our cause? Does it help people come to think the way we do? No, but that is another question entirely.

What we don't have a right to do is use the government to advance our views. Neither do the religious, but religious conservatives have no difficulty using their numbers to do just that. Maybe if we didn't have the government and most of society pushing so hard to foster religious views atheists would be less likely to come across as people with chips on their shoulder.
yes we have the right to. But should we? We are trying to prove that without blind faith in myths a persons knowledge can achieve new heights. But, when you are tossing insults and calling names, it makes you look like you have a 4th grade mindset and are just a nerd turned bully with entitlement issues. Seriously, when people use the excuse, "we've been/we are oppressed", It annoys me. The only person oppressing you is yourself. You allow them to control you when you stoop to name calling and belittling. If you really were being oppressed you wouldn't be trying to become the oppressor.

Rise above the school yard antics, focus on advancing scientific discovery and move on. Allow your work speak for you. Imagine if Einstein stood around name calling and belittling everyone around him, do you think he would be seen as one of the greatest minds of our world? Hardly, we probably would have ignored most of his studies.
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