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More insults to try and divert away from answering questions? Who would have ever guessed?
No insult but I did think it was funny. We don't share the same sense of humour and probably we don't share the same belief. But if you are looking for an explanation of my beliefs as to not leave you in the dark here it is:
1. God is a living Being, as we are living beings however He is much more superior to us and His limitations are a lot less, but He does have limitations.
2. He works within the laws of nature which He created, which is His limitations I mentioned.
3. He can communicate to us, through many different means, like other people or written words for example.
4. I do not believe God judges us as we see judgement. Therefore no heaven and hell. We all meet God, Our Creator, when we die and are enlightened about our life.
5. Not everyone is meant to believe in God, atheists can provide objective reasoning.
But I do believe that in the End we meet our Maker, per ce as I already mentioned. We all do as far as I believe.
There are a few. There are things I don't know, I'm only human. I'm sure not the religious/Christian outlook you were expecting.
You and I do not know what the future holds. I will continue to ask people who espouse such beliefs if they can substantiate them in ANY way at all. Perhaps some day someone will. I am not about to stop asking in the interim however just to pander to you.
To dispense advice however, whether you want it or not you can disregard it and likely will, perhaps if you want to preach and witness rather than discuss then a pulpit, blog, or soap box is more useful to you than a debate and discussion forum. Because here on a debate and discussion forum we are likely to call people on their nonsense, and ask for claims to be substantiated.
As long as you, and others, continue to enter the forum and make religious claims then I will continue to call you on them and question them. If you do not want to enter into such discourse with me then simply stop replying to my replies. No one is forcing you to.
My claims are not religious though. And you can ask and I can tell you what I can provide to you. Maybe some person out there will provide you with the answer you are looking for. I respect you for looking.
I will share my experiences and beliefs. But if you are looking for me to provide you some evidence then you aren't listening. Sharing beliefs is not proving evidence. You wont get this proof you keep asking for. I've told you over and over that you will have to take that leap of faith on your own as everyone has too.
I see your point, Vansdad. I don't think I have ever asked a Theist to justify their beliefs. We all have our own way of looking at the world.
However, I do like to understand the beliefs of Theists.
For example, if you believe in an afterlife, do you believe that ALL living organisms have an afterlife or is it just humans?
1. God is a living Being, as we are living beings however He is much more superior to us and His limitations are a lot less, but He does have limitations.
2. He works within the laws of nature which He created, which is His limitations I mentioned.
4. I do not believe God judges us as we see judgement. Therefore no heaven and hell. We all meet God, Our Creator, when we die and are enlightened about our life.
You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever when asked that this entity exists _at all_ yet you are somehow able to tell us it's attributes and limitations and more. And you wonder why people are so quick to realize you are just making this up as you go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
3. He can communicate to us, through many different means, like other people or written words for example.
So this entity communicates with us in only ways that just happen to look like there is no god at all and it is actually the people writing the words etc. Perhaps Occams Razor would be of use to you here.
It is always amazing to me how this entity does everything in ways that specifically make it look like the entity did nothing at all. There is a clear explanation for why this might be. It doesn't exist at all and is not doing any of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
5. Not everyone is meant to believe in God, atheists can provide objective reasoning.
Good move. When making something up, include in it throw away reasons why people might not believe you. Preferably reasons that lay the fault/blame at their feet rather than your own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
There are a few. There are things I don't know, I'm only human. I'm sure not the religious/Christian outlook you were expecting.
On the contrary most to all of it is the same bog standard stuff I always here. Nothing new or original or rare here at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
My claims are not religious though. And you can ask and I can tell you what I can provide to you. Maybe some person out there will provide you with the answer you are looking for. I respect you for looking.
I do not care if they are religious or not in your definition of religious. The label is not important for your claims for me. The substantiation for them however is. And you have none it seems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vansdad
But for me there IS a reason, you just don't believe or like that reason.
Unfortunately all the "reason" you have given us so far boil down to essentially "I believe it because I believe it" and that distillation is me being generous.
You have given us a reason. Then declared that your belief preceeded the awareness of that reason. How is that a reason?
Which came first the chicken or the egg. Everyone is different. I started to believe that there is an "order to things". This may have been my reason as you see it.
I see your point, Vansdad. I don't think I have ever asked a Theist to justify their beliefs. We all have our own way of looking at the world.
However, I do like to understand the beliefs of Theists.
For example, if you believe in an afterlife, do you believe that ALL living organisms have an afterlife or is it just humans?
As for me I believe it is our conscious mind that lives on, our soul or spirit (whatever you choose to call it). No other animal has a conscious mind like ours. Some animals do have self awareness like chimps and dolphins but I do not think that is the same as our minds. But I could also be 100% wrong as it is only a belief. Some religions do believe in these things so who am I to say what is right. Again it is a belief. But I do believe all humans live on with God the same way. Not the judgement and heaven and hell scenario.
You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever when asked that this entity exists _at all_ yet you are somehow able to tell us it's attributes and limitations and more. And you wonder why people are so quick to realize you are just making this up as you go.
So this entity communicates with us in only ways that just happen to look like there is no god at all and it is actually the people writing the words etc. Perhaps Occams Razor would be of use to you here.
It is always amazing to me how this entity does everything in ways that specifically make it look like the entity did nothing at all. There is a clear explanation for why this might be. It doesn't exist at all and is not doing any of it.
Good move. When making something up, include in it throw away reasons why people might not believe you. Preferably reasons that lay the fault/blame at their feet rather than your own.
On the contrary most to all of it is the same bog standard stuff I always here. Nothing new or original or rare here at all.
I do not care if they are religious or not in your definition of religious. The label is not important for your claims for me. The substantiation for them however is. And you have none it seems.
Unfortunately all the "reason" you have given us so far boil down to essentially "I believe it because I believe it" and that distillation is me being generous.
And you wonder why people don't want to share their beliefs with you. Funny thing is that you keep mentioning I have no evidence, which I think you mean proof, and I agree there is no proof, but you still get mad. Are you interested in my beliefs or my evidence? It seems you can always argue with the evidence but you can never argue with ones belief. I think you find this frustrating.
And you wonder why people don't want to share their beliefs with you. Funny thing is that you keep mentioning I have no evidence, which I think you mean proof, and I agree there is no proof, but you still get mad.
I don't think anyone cares over much what the belief is rather the why. Forget about proof. Proof implies a definitive quality as with a geometry proof. ANY outward sign, indicator, testimony or witness.
Quote:
Are you interested in my beliefs or my evidence? It seems you can always argue with the evidence but you can never argue with ones belief. I think you find this frustrating.
Of course you can! Not that that would change anyone's mind. But I think a lot of times theists get confused. As if their belief has an impact on the outcome of the question. God does or does not exists regardless of people's belief. Unless you are talking about a psychological contruct, that god exists as a thought in your head or a feeling.
If the belief was actually based ON something, then arguing the merits of the something on which is was based would be possible.
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