Has our society evolved beyond needing religion ? (funerals, Christianity, atheist)
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Look at the history books for the US and abroad. In times of desperation, religion is always more important than in times of prosperity.
While I get what you are saying, the US has been different in this regard. It has been far more religious than Europe post WWII and coming out of WWII, the early years must have been very ominous to say the least.
Ignore the internet and compare televangelists, they hardly feature on EU tv by comparison to the US. If the US had been bombed like Europe, I am sure there would have been a different outcome but in essence, the US had it pretty easy throughout the two world wars by comparison.
Then you have to look at a post war Europe and ask why it is the US that have taken on the world with their continuing wars and who is behind the mindless patriotism condoning these wars?
Greg Paul, of course, has suggested a modification of the theory mentioned above: religiosity is higher not just when average income is low, but when average life security is low. If you plot religiosity against what Paul calls the “successful societies scale,” which takes into account dysfunctionalities like corruption, suicide, marital stability, and so forth, the U.S. is no longer an outlier. We’re a rich society, but Paul’s metric shows that we’re not such a successful one.
This was what I was trying to say but in a roundabout way. The US was behind the curve but 9-11 reset all progress and gave the zealots and the politicians another reason to keep you guys fearful.
Tis baffling as when last was MAINLAND USA invaded by a foreign force? That would be never or if you take the war of independence and the Brits coming to the aid of of their emissaries as an invasion.
Any US citizen should know, the Cuban missile crisis was a self inflicted one, the US started the whose got a bigger dick competition by placing missiles in Europe.
Also, what were the ideologies being fought against in Korea and Vietnam?
Red menace?
The last war that had any moral justification was WWII and in particular, the European theatre. It was not just the Yanks that had the red scare.
Post WWII the US and to a lesser extent the UK assisted in the rebuilding and restoration of Germany and Japan. The question that has to be asked is why they are now technological leaders in industry while it appears the US is stagnant? A Merc or BMW or Audi are expensive cars yet there remains a demand for them. Did they have bailouts? The UK car manufacturing is all but defunct and they too made some crackers in the past, the little that remains is mostly foreign owned these days. Both China and Japan have active space programs whereas NASA seems to be stagnant. These are key indicators that pique my curiosity.
I would venture that it has more to do with education and less with income. My experiences, observations, whille not all inclusive, have shown that less educated people tend to be more religious. Think about that. Where are the intellectuals, the researchers, professors and such on the religious scale? Most are non-religious if not self professed atheists. Does intellect accompany atheistic beliefs?
Consider the "Bible Belt" of the USA....no offense, but anyone who has actually gone into and observed these fundy/evangelical "Christians" first hand as I have on many occasions would note that the pews are filled not just with the social clubbers but with the less educated strata of society.
Recently I made reference on facebook to the great Nietschze comment of "god is dead" (Making a philosophical statement) and I had two fundy christians correct me that according to the Bible, "God is not dead, he rose from dead etc" These two people are the least educated on my facebook list, no formal education past high school at all, and interessting that they would be the two to take a myth literally as fact and allow it to pervade their definitiions of any philosophical reference. SO could it be that religious involvement outside of a "social club" aspect serves as a respite for the less intellegient and less educated?
I would venture that it has more to do with education and less with income. My experiences, observations, whille not all inclusive, have shown that less educated people tend to be more religious. Think about that. Where are the intellectuals, the researchers, professors and such on the religious scale? Most are non-religious if not self professed atheists. Does intellect accompany atheistic beliefs?
Consider the "Bible Belt" of the USA....no offense, but anyone who has actually gone into and observed these fundy/evangelical "Christians" first hand as I have on many occasions would note that the pews are filled not just with the social clubbers but with the less educated strata of society.
Recently I made reference on facebook to the great Nietschze comment of "god is dead" (Making a philosophical statement) and I had two fundy christians correct me that according to the Bible, "God is not dead, he rose from dead etc" These two people are the least educated on my facebook list, no formal education past high school at all, and interessting that they would be the two to take a myth literally as fact and allow it to pervade their definitiions of any philosophical reference. SO could it be that religious involvement outside of a "social club" aspect serves as a respite for the less intellegient and less educated?
When will this self-congratulatory nonsense cease? Atheism has more relevance to the adage . . . "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" . . . than to this egotistical claptrap.
When will this self-congratulatory nonsense cease? Atheism has more relevance to the adage . . . "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" . . . than to this egotistical claptrap.
He's right you know... religious people have a lower IQ than the general population. Critical thinking is vital for survival and developed through education.
He's right you know... religious people have a lower IQ than the general population. Critical thinking is vital for survival and developed through education.
It makes no difference if it's self-congratulatory or not. It's simply true.
Thanks for posting those references. I was attempting to draw upon my observations and studies in relating my idea that religious people generally have lower IQs than the non-religious. Of course, it is not an ALL OR NOTHING Absolute statement but a general statement. There are educated intelligent theosts, yes, but they are not the norm or the average.
The Psychology today article references something I have encountered in dealing with the hyper-religious types. I remember asking a friend if he had ever read Nietschze's THus Spake Zarathustra , To which he replied "No I have the bible why whould I want to read that?" Clearly, in his case, like with many others, religions serve as a barrier to explanded learning and insight. One who has to live by "One RUle" Misses out on a plethora of opertunities ofr education and self improvement. Religion thus discourages these people from persuing educational and intellectual pursuits. Religion tells people waht they can and more sadly, cannot read, which means that there are things they cannot learn, which limits in this case the furthering of one's education and understanding of the world around them.
Now yes, I am a non-theist and Yes I personally find psychology and science to be a much more interesting read than mythology, but when mythology dictates the rules for an individual and a society, I have to say again, from a psychological point of view especially, is religion thus healthy? Do we really need something in our society which serves as a barrier to allowing people to reach their full potential and capabilities as otherwise intelligent creatures?
He's right you know... religious people have a lower IQ than the general population. Critical thinking is vital for survival and developed through education.
It makes no difference if it's self-congratulatory or not. It's simply true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat
Thanks for posting those references. I was attempting to draw upon my observations and studies in relating my idea that religious people generally have lower IQs than the non-religious. Of course, it is not an ALL OR NOTHING Absolute statement but a general statement. There are educated intelligent theosts, yes, but they are not the norm or the average.
The Psychology today article references something I have encountered in dealing with the hyper-religious types. I remember asking a friend if he had ever read Nietschze's THus Spake Zarathustra , To which he replied "No I have the bible why whould I want to read that?" Clearly, in his case, like with many others, religions serve as a barrier to explanded learning and insight. One who has to live by "One RUle" Misses out on a plethora of opertunities ofr education and self improvement. Religion thus discourages these people from persuing educational and intellectual pursuits. Religion tells people waht they can and more sadly, cannot read, which means that there are things they cannot learn, which limits in this case the furthering of one's education and understanding of the world around them.
Now yes, I am a non-theist and Yes I personally find psychology and science to be a much more interesting read than mythology, but when mythology dictates the rules for an individual and a society, I have to say again, from a psychological point of view especially, is religion thus healthy? Do we really need something in our society which serves as a barrier to allowing people to reach their full potential and capabilities as otherwise intelligent creatures?
Regrettably, atheists . . . especially those who believe they have some intellectual superiority over theists . . . suffer from the mistake of conflating belief in religion and religious dogma with theism. They are related but NOT the same thing. There are all manner of beliefs ABOUT God extant . . . but none of them affect the validity of a belief in the EXISTENCE of God (which is theism). The existential issue is the defining one for theism and atheism . . . NOT the myriad, frequently asinine and absurd beliefs ABOUT God in religions. It is the focus on the religions to the exclusion of the existential issue that I referred to with my allusion to "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" as the source of atheism . . . NOT superior intellect or IQ.
The fact is, Mystic, that there is a lot of confusion about ideas and terms regarding religion, theism and dogma and indeed about atheism. Not everyone has your clear objective view of the matter and superior knowledge about the facts.
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