Is there homeschooling for the non-religious? (believe, choices, experience, bible)

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by NoCapo

As an Atheist now, I have thought about homeschooling, should I have kids, but I tend to think the potential for social disadvantage outweighs the academic benefits.

This is a common beef among the home schoolers of the world, the assumption that there is a social disadvantage. Read up, you might be pleasantly surprised.

[NoCapo]

Originally Posted by somebodynew

This is a common beef among the home schoolers of the world, the assumption that there is a social disadvantage. Read up, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I am not sure what you mean or what you think I should "read up" on... I parroted the same lines and statistics when I was in highschool. I know what HSLDA says about it. My point was that as someone who was homeschooled for the greater portion of my pre-collegiate education, I absolutely feel that my social development was negatively affected by my experience. I can't say that a public or private school experience would ahve been better, but but certainly would have been different.

Now, I am very aware that homeschooling, in and of itself is not solely responsible. In my case it was coupled with a strict fundamentalist Christianity, a hyper religious homeschooling environment, and a socially homogeneous peer group. The majority of kids in my homeschool group were just like me, white, middle to upper middle class, and highly religious evangelicals. Those that were of other ethnicities were still well off, conservative and decidedly Christian.

College was a huge shock to me becasue all the sudden all my peers were different. I now knew people that drank alcohol, smoked pot, played Magic the Gathering, played sports, or argued philosophy on the porch. It wasn't just the edgy ( and probably loose) kids that actually dated ( as opposed to courting - see Joshua Harris ) anymore. It took me a long time to adjust. I was ill prepared for school becasue I never had to motivate myself, I had my mom telling me to do my work. It is a very different dynamic when Mom or Dad are not the teacher. Because my parents are well schooled in the sciences, I had a very solid backround in chemistry, physics, calculus, and computer science. My biology, art, and literature were very lacking, because of the religious curriculum that left out a lot of evolutionary theory, naked people, and literature that dealt with violence, sex, drugs, or profanity.

I am not saying homeschooling cannot work, but as a product of it I am much more sensitive to what I percieve as its failings than I am to those of public or private education. As such, I am much more likely to choose one of those options if I have kids. Just my opinion.

-NoCapo

[residinghere2007]

I actually think secular homeschooling is a growing trend. Especially in the Bible belt or other religious places IMO as a lot of secular parents I know don't want their kids taught creationism and other pseudo-science that is actually religious in nature.

I would home school my own kids if we moved to an area where I felt that schools were sub par. We were considering moving to Chicago and since I don't like all the testing for magnet or selective based schools, even though my kids are above average and I know they'd get in, I just like neighborhood schools, so I was going to homeschool if we did, or do in the future move there as I'd want to live on the south side near my in-laws and practically all the schools around her are bad academically and have kids who don't know how to act in a class room.

But my kids LOVE school so it would be a tough thing to do to them. I would do it for their benefit though and just find a great secular home school group.

[cislga]

Yes, we homeschooled in GA without any religious affliation. It was diffcult at times to find like-minded HSers but it can be accomplished. I refused to belong to any group that required us to sign a statement of faith. Some groups were very religious and some were inclusive.

In the elementary school years it was great, very little time on academics, more time to discover what interested him. Typical boy, very strong in science and math, English and literature are not his strong suits. The field trips were great! Before the economy tanked, we went on several HS cruises and after teaching him about the Mayans, Panama Canal and rainforests, we were able to visit those places.

He decided he wanted to attend HS because hanging with mom was not so cool anymore. My son is now a sophmore at a private school and doing very well. His junior year he has a choice of attending the local public school or dual enrollment at the school he is attending now. I would love for him to have the experience of homeschooling, private and now maybe public. It's his decision. He's old enough now to decide which avenue to take.

We were not typical HSers, but were out there!

[nimchimpsky]

Of course. My dad's SO homeschool's her children because she feels like traditional schools try to shove them in a box, and they are way too creative and open-minded for that. They're not the least bit religious.

[MagnetMan]

Forcing children from the age of four or five
both in state school and at home
to sit behind a desk and train the left side of the brain
to memorize textbooks for five or six hours a day
for twelve years and more
is not only physically, emotionally and mentally unhealthy in the extreme
it ends up as nothing more or less
than a system of cultural indoctrination
it is not education by any pure means of definition

if you leave out the psychological balance
that can only come form an equal concentration on left and right brain exercises
you can turn any half-witted kid into an idealistic fanatic via premature script indoctrination
whether it be religious. communistic or capitalistic
they can be easily pursueded to go to war
with anybody who disagrees with their brand of brain wash

28 years ago
I threw out the doctrinaire left brain textbooks
and home schooled both sides of my eight kids brains
via oral-based instruction up until puberty
they learned a chore-based work-ethic in the home
chemistry in the kitchen
maths and craftsmanship in the workshop
biology in the garden
the physics of torque, trajectory and velocity in the playground
social studies via charitable community projects and Television
yoga and meditation drills and exercises every morning

at puberty they got one week instruction in kindergarten reading/riting/rithmatic
and where then left to master the state's academic textbooks themselves
within three months their prose skills
uninhibited by premature instruction in the mechanics of grammar
enriched by a vast oral vocabulary
were astonishingly lucid
they relished the power script composition gave them over time/space, plot and character development
like young gods of their own creation
each wrote a full length science fiction novel within the first year
they swarmed the internet for science information
at age 16 all of them took final year high school state exams
and passed among the top 3% in the nation

they are all self-educated graduates
trained to think things out for themselves
impossible to be coerced by any scripted doctrine
to digress from plain common sense

I am busy writing the HeartStart Dual Brain Home-school manual as we speak
any parent interested is welcome to contact me

[mordant]

I homeschooled my children for about 7 years. Although I was still nominally an evangelical Christian when I started, it had more to do with my first wife's paranoia and inability to cope with the Outside World (she had diagnosed mental health issues). My kids hit the ground running when they switched to public school so I don't think they missed out on anything academically. I have not been impressed by the public school my step children attended (the last one just went off to college). So I have mixed feelings that my daughter is home schooling my two grandsons. She's an atheist and her primary reason is that her oldest son was not thriving in a conventional school, he is one of those "out of sync" kids with perceptual issues and his needs were not being met by traditional schooling. On the other hand I don't know if he's going to be adequately prepared for the Real World this way, either. I wouldn't do homeschooling if I had it to do over again, it was a heck of a lot of blood, sweat and tears and I can't objectively demonstrate a superior outcome to what a conventional education would have provided. For a special case like my grandson, maybe I'd do it, although frankly I would try conventional schooling combined with professional therapy first.

It's true that there are a lot of ill-considered, uninformed snap judgments about the social aspects of home schooling. My grandsons regularly attend group classes and events / field trips, compete in the same national competitions as conventionally schooled children, etc. They are serious tai kwon do students, etc. I don't think they lack for socialization opportunities, except in one respect ... they may find the regimentation of most college and work environments a bit of a shock. They are used to more self-directed curriculum, to having everything tailored to their needs, which is both a blessing and a curse. My solution is to urge my daughter to put them back into conventional schools at least for high school. This gives them what they need, up to a point, but eases them into the mainstream in plenty of time for college.

[NoCapo]

Originally Posted by mordant

I don't think they lack for socialization opportunities, except in one respect ... they may find the regimentation of most college and work environments a bit of a shock. They are used to more self-directed curriculum, to having everything tailored to their needs, which is both a blessing and a curse.

Precisely! If I strip out all of the religious stuff that was associate with my homeschooling experience, I am still left with two issues. I didn't know how to effectively work in an environment that wasn't custom fit to me, and I didn't know how to deal with people who were not genuine. Having to deal with bad attitudes, mean people, and self motivate were big issues for me in college. I think I would have benefited from some time in a traditional classroom environment during high school.

I don't think homeschooling is bad, I just think that it isn't a panacea. A lot of the homeschool propaganda tends to want to paint it as the only right way to educate a child, and I think that is overblown. I do think parental involvement, no matter what educational path you take, is critical.

-NoCapo

[PoppySead]

Two of my kids were home schooled and are now in college on campus. My 9 year old son attended a gifted program in a public school until last year, he was beyond it and they told me they had little options. It was either go to jr. high early or homeschool another one.

Since we had special needs regular school didn't work out well. It wasn't for religious reasons, just educational ones. They either adjust socially or they don't regardless of attending school IMO. My first two were introverts anyway, my son is not. He finds kids in the neighborhood to hang out with. My kids and I did a lot of outside the home stuff. Part of the lessons were life lessons like buying your own things at the register and calling or ordering things themselves.
They just grew up pretty independent and taught themselves a lot without me.

College is easier than they though and all worked out pretty good. I think I'm the only one who wanted to run out of the house screaming on occasion. They did fine. lol

Homeschooling depends on the family. It's a pretty individual choice to me. It limits your adult time but the kids in my house seemed to thrive on it. They liked learning though when they were at home and they didn't like learning at school. To many extra curricular they weren't interested in. They got to pick their own at home like art, or Japanese. School was slow. They gained a group of friends all over the world from internet groups. Some of which they now have known for years in other countries and they all talk about visiting one another finally.

I do notice they aren't as social with their age group around town as I was. More social with adults or through chat groups or clubs.
I wasn't home schooled and I hung out with a large group of kids from 15 years on from school, had bf's, partied early, etc. Remembering back I'm really glad I home schooled my kids. lol I've never worried about them coming home drunk, high or prego. Nice bonus. I also never worried about them graduating from high school.

I'd recommend it to who ever asked me. I'm pretty happy with it. Now they have online schools which I imagine is pretty nice although the structure of learning might be similar to a public school but just at home. Don't know if I'd like that much, I'm pretty much a hippie.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by NoCapo

I am not sure what you mean or what you think I should "read up" on... I parroted the same lines and statistics when I was in highschool. I know what HSLDA says about it. My point was that as someone who was homeschooled for the greater portion of my pre-collegiate education, I absolutely feel that my social development was negatively affected by my experience. I can't say that a public or private school experience would ahve been better, but but certainly would have been different.

Now, I am very aware that homeschooling, in and of itself is not solely responsible. In my case it was coupled with a strict fundamentalist Christianity, a hyper religious homeschooling environment, and a socially homogeneous peer group. The majority of kids in my homeschool group were just like me, white, middle to upper middle class, and highly religious evangelicals. Those that were of other ethnicities were still well off, conservative and decidedly Christian.

College was a huge shock to me becasue all the sudden all my peers were different. I now knew people that drank alcohol, smoked pot, played Magic the Gathering, played sports, or argued philosophy on the porch. It wasn't just the edgy ( and probably loose) kids that actually dated ( as opposed to courting - see Joshua Harris ) anymore. It took me a long time to adjust. I was ill prepared for school becasue I never had to motivate myself, I had my mom telling me to do my work. It is a very different dynamic when Mom or Dad are not the teacher. Because my parents are well schooled in the sciences, I had a very solid backround in chemistry, physics, calculus, and computer science. My biology, art, and literature were very lacking, because of the religious curriculum that left out a lot of evolutionary theory, naked people, and literature that dealt with violence, sex, drugs, or profanity.

I am not saying homeschooling cannot work, but as a product of it I am much more sensitive to what I percieve as its failings than I am to those of public or private education. As such, I am much more likely to choose one of those options if I have kids. Just my opinion.

-NoCapo

I think you are lumping the failings of your entire upbringing under the banner of home schooling. What you describe above is not the only or even the most popular way to home school. It is just one piece of the fundy puzzle. I say this just to be clear to anyone out there who might be considering home schooling. One can successfully home school without living in a bubble and torturing your child with hyper insulation. When we did it, the last thing we had was a socially homogenous peer group for our kids! Academics can be done successfully as well, regardless of the parent's background. That YOUR parents did not do it successfully is not a condemnation on the concept of home schooling. I am sorry that you experienced that.