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Old 11-16-2012, 03:50 PM
 
40,046 posts, read 26,725,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I fail to see the difference between someone operating a small dry cleaners who makes $25,000/year and someone who operates a church for $25,000/year. They should both be taxed at the same rate.
Err . . . Troop "Congress may make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof." Tax law is law respecting the exercise of religious "donations" declaring them income to be taxed. Sorry . . . a No, No.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:42 PM
 
Location: New York metropolitan area
1,317 posts, read 1,283,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Native Americans have a longer history of being here. If longevity is the criteria all religions, except the NA religions, should be taxed.

Islam and Judaism have also been in the USA as long as Christianity and are a part of American history, an ignored part, but still a part.
Many Native Americans were Christians (Not all of them). They were happily and wanted to convert to Christianity after seeking freedom, truth, faith, and hope when Europeans arrived in America.

Islam and Judaism are very small minority in America, both past and present.
Not the same thing as Christianity
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:23 PM
 
278 posts, read 255,401 times
Reputation: 174
Tax the church already!
If there is one group of people that deserves to be tax-free it's veterans! These are people who actually do something for the country!
I am in perpetual disgust that the church pay no taxes! They would rather the destitute be taxed!
Complete and utterly disgusting!
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:38 PM
 
16,092 posts, read 17,888,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
Many Native Americans were Christians (Not all of them). They were happily and wanted to convert to Christianity after seeking freedom, truth, faith, and hope when Europeans arrived in America.

Islam and Judaism are very small minority in America, both past and present.
Not the same thing as Christianity
The Native Americans did not convert willingly to Christianity. Most of them were perfectly happy with their own gods.

NebraskaStudies.Org

Native Americans and Christianity - RationalWiki

Quote:
The Puritans, along with other Christian missionaries, attempted to convert as many Natives as possible. However, they faced many obstacles. One option that had always proven successful was simply to threaten to kill those who did not convert.
But when a more peaceful means was needed, then as with any political power shift, the missionaries needed to identify the leaders (the male leaders, as it was rarely acknowledged by missionaries or governments that some tribes had women holding equal power to the men) and work on converting them, then let those leaders convert others. Chiefs, Tribal Councils, and holy men were a focus for the missionaries, depending on the structure and (often misunderstood) religion of the tribe.
Quote:
There is a final, far more tragic means to convert the people.
Kidnap the children.
Rechristen them with English Christian names, forbid the use of their own names.
Punish them for speaking their own language, or grab them when they are young enough not to have learned it very well.
Force them to live at the Mission School and only visit home 1 or 2 days for the Christian Christmas.
Cut their hair, strip them of their clothing and religious artifacts, and denigrate the artifacts as uncivilized, backwards, or "primitive".
Do this all when they are young enough to not fight back.
Native populations were decimated by illness, starvation, and war. But the actual native cultures were more decimated by the mission schools and "Jesus" than anything else done to the various Indian peoples.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:40 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,738,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Err . . . Troop "Congress may make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof." Tax law is law respecting the exercise of religious "donations" declaring them income to be taxed. Sorry . . . a No, No.
I'm running a religion. It is no longer legal to tax me, but please, continue to deduct taxable donation from my followers. Seems congress is making decisions based on respecting the establishment of religion left and right. Please, the only "Law" congress made respecting the corrupt establishment of factionist religion was In order not the tax their businesses. You want to have a religion without taxes? Don't get taxable land, don't pay your pastor for his "holy" services. don't be a for-profit business. want to be a non-profit? Be one!

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 11-16-2012 at 09:56 PM..
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:42 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,786 posts, read 19,886,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Err . . . Troop "Congress may make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof." Tax law is law respecting the exercise of religious "donations" declaring them income to be taxed. Sorry . . . a No, No.
I don't think 'free' means financially free in that segment.
It can also be interpreted to say that exempting religious institutions is 'making a law' particular to them and to not do so would be to be treating them as all others....taxable.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
Many Native Americans were Christians (Not all of them). They were happily and wanted to convert to Christianity after seeking freedom, truth, faith, and hope when Europeans arrived in America.

Islam and Judaism are very small minority in America, both past and present.
Not the same thing as Christianity
Tell that to my wife she was one of the Children "Rescued" from the Northern Cheyenne Reservation in the 1940s to be given a good Christian Up-Bringing. she escaped from her nice Christian Foster Parents as soon as she was able find the means to return home. she returned to the Native Beliefs until she was nearly 60 and then accepted Islam.

As for first hand knowledge is all I can relate to are my Lakotah Friends who convert to "Christianity" in front of the never ending Missionaries, but fully practice and live the Native Religion. They laugh at being called Christian Converts. But it is handy for them to be "Saved" every time a new evangelist comes to the Rez.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,317,939 times
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I have seen it with my own eyes. They will simply show a loss or break even. Snakeoil salesmen are pretty astute in "cooking the books", it is after all what they do for a "living". They all use trust funds to enjoy the benefits w/o being subject to taxation. It is the oldest con in the book.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,274,790 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Err . . . Troop "Congress may make no law respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof." Tax law is law respecting the exercise of religious "donations" declaring them income to be taxed. Sorry . . . a No, No.
I don't know, Mystic...

It seems to me that allowing churches NOT to pay taxes is in fact a law respecting the establishment of religion. I don't see how taxing "donations" to the church is prohibiting the free exercise of religion either. People are still free to worship. They're still free to donate to the church. The only difference is that because the establishment of religion is no longer respected by the U.S. government, it has to pay taxes.

This especially holds true, in my opinion, for any religious institution that tries to inject itself into public policy. Any religious organization that rallies for or against abortion, for or against gay marriage, and so on and so forth, should be taxed for using the benefits it receives from not paying taxes to public policy that is shaped by taxpayers.

For example, the Mormon Moderator cut: deleted and its funding against gay marriage is a large reason why Proposition 8 failed in California. I don't believe it's right that an institution of any sort can claim tax free status and then use the money they're not paying taxes on to shape public policy.

The churches can't have it both ways. If they want tax free status, they need to shut up and keep to themselves. If they want to inject themselves into public policy and the law, they should be paying taxes.

Last edited by june 7th; 11-17-2012 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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While many theists are under the assumption that in the USA, Separation of State and Religion, means the Government keep out of Religion, the actual intent is that religion will keep out of Government. When the constitution was written there was a very real fear that the Vatican would gain control of the fledgling USA, the clause was added to keep that from happening.

We are free to practice our religion only to the extent it does not violate any State, Federal or Local laws. So it should be with taxes. While it is fair for churches to claim tax exemptions for Charitable or non-profit activities they should be held to the same level of accountability any Charity/Not for Profit business is held. the idea of a blanket tax exclusion, needs to end, as that is in fact a subsidy paid by the general population including people who do not adhere to that faith.

Last edited by Woodrow LI; 11-17-2012 at 03:17 PM..
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