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Old 11-16-2012, 08:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
Why do you always need to bring what few Christians have done in the past?
Every time Christians says how they have been persecuted, raped, and murdered throughout the history - atheists always bring back something that there are virtually no evidence it even occurred.

So you deny the persecution of early Christians by the Romans and Jews?
You deny the persecution of Christians during WWI genocide against Christian Armenian, Assyrians, and Greeks by the Ottoman Empire?
You deny the bombing of churches and murdering Christians in parts of the Middle East, such as in Syria, Iraq?
Of course, I do not deny the persecution of the early Christians, but throughout history Christians have done the same whenever they held power. It's actually a matter of power rather than belief.

The Catholic Church murdered and persecuted plenty who did not hold to their beliefs. The Catholics and Protestants murder each other and who is persecuted depends on who won the war.

This is something that Christians consistently try to gloss over.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:55 AM
 
Location: New York metropolitan area
1,317 posts, read 1,284,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDragon View Post
It wasn't their atheism that caused Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, et al to slay people, it was their (political) ideology. No leader to my knowledge has killed anyone in the name of Darwin!
Actually it was. Stalin himself murdered tens of millions of Christians when he got into power, because he hated religion so much. He destroyed lots of churches, and banned religion.

Mao, Pol Pot... Don't even get me started.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
Actually it was. Stalin himself murdered tens of millions of Christians when he got into power, because he hated religion so much. He destroyed lots of churches, and banned religion.

Mao, Pol Pot... Don't even get me started.

I respectfully disagree. Stalin killed millions, not just Christians, to consolidate power. Totalitarianism was the common dominator, not atheism. Also, the Orthodox church was fully involved in politics at the time. These were politically motivated killings. Furthermore, during Stalin's rule, from 1945-1959, the number of open churches went from around 500 to about 25,000. How could this be, if Stalin was so maniacal about eradicating religion from the USSR? The evidence doesn't quite add up to your claim.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:13 AM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,732,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
Actually it was. Stalin himself murdered tens of millions of Christians when he got into power, because he hated religion so much. He destroyed lots of churches, and banned religion.

Mao, Pol Pot... Don't even get me started.
Oh please. Stalin killed many different people. Heck he even had members of his own Party murdered. His goal was totalitarianism, that was the causal link, not his lack of belief in a god.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:28 PM
 
Location: New York metropolitan area
1,317 posts, read 1,284,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDragon View Post
I respectfully disagree. Stalin killed millions, not just Christians, to consolidate power. Totalitarianism was the common dominator, not atheism. Also, the Orthodox church was fully involved in politics at the time. These were politically motivated killings. Furthermore, during Stalin's rule, from 1945-1959, the number of open churches went from around 500 to about 25,000. How could this be, if Stalin was so maniacal about eradicating religion from the USSR? The evidence doesn't quite add up to your claim.
You atheists will never admit anything, and try to make all atheists throughout the history to look good as much as possible.

"The Soviet establishment again clashed with the churches under General Secretary Nikita Khrushchev's leadership in 1958–1964, a period when atheism was emphasized in the educational curriculum, and numerous state publications promoted atheistic views.[134] During this period, the number of churches fell from 20,000 to 10,000 from 1959 to 1965, and the number of synagogues dropped from 500 to 97. The number of working mosques also declined, falling from 1,500 to 500 within a decade."

Religion in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From 1922 to 1926 - 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were killed, and many more persecuted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecu...e_Soviet_Union
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:16 PM
 
16,100 posts, read 17,899,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunnor View Post
You atheists will never admit anything, and try to make all atheists throughout the history to look good as much as possible.

"The Soviet establishment again clashed with the churches under General Secretary Nikita Khrushchev's leadership in 1958–1964, a period when atheism was emphasized in the educational curriculum, and numerous state publications promoted atheistic views.[134] During this period, the number of churches fell from 20,000 to 10,000 from 1959 to 1965, and the number of synagogues dropped from 500 to 97. The number of working mosques also declined, falling from 1,500 to 500 within a decade."

Religion in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From 1922 to 1926 - 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were killed, and many more persecuted

Persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And? The soviet establishment hated the churches because of the power they wielded. Anything that was in the way of Communist power was persecuted.

But then again, people were converted *by* the sword, why should you expect that those who had this done to them would not retaliate.

Christian Persecution of Pagans and Heathens - Bad News About Christianity

Quote:
Late in the tenth century Russia was converted when Prince Vladimir adopted Christianity. His subjects were given the choice of Christian baptism in the river Dneiper or drowning in it. Vladimir is now a saint. Soon afterwards Norway was converted under King Olav, again largely at the point of the sword. He too is now a saint. Other Scandinavians, Slavs, and many other peoples were converted in the same way. The Christianisation of Iceland was much less bloody than usual, although it shows the technique. A Saxon missionary, Friedrich arrived in the tenth century but was forced to leave when his assistant Thorvaldur killed too many locals. In AD 1000 King Olav of Norway (Ólafur Tryggvason) was possessed by one of his periodic bouts of Christian zeal.
Quote:
Over many centuries Christians killed thousands, perhaps millions, for the crime of not being Christian or sometimes for the crime of not being sufficiently Christian. Some were killed by the sword, some burned alive, some drowned, some buried alive, some forced to face wild animals. Traditional Christian history books rarely find room for this side of the story.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:44 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,393,502 times
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I wouldn't be surprised if Dawkins is murdered one day by Islamic fundamentalists.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if Dawkins is murdered one day by Islamic fundamentalists.
I really doubt if many of us are concerned about him. He might hate us, but he has not been overtly disrepectful of us, nor uses insulting tactics to demean us and does not try to convert us to atheism. He might hate us, but he has not done anything to incite any retaliation.

He does not seem to be a hate monger bent on getting a reaction from Muslims.

I would say he faces an equal chance of being killed by a fanatical Christian as he does by a fanatical Muslim. Remote--but possible
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:05 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,888 posts, read 3,975,734 times
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Default absolute power.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
Oh please. Stalin killed many different people. Heck he even had members of his own Party murdered. His goal was totalitarianism, that was the causal link, not his lack of belief in a god.
Exactly

Lest we forget he old adage, "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely"

That can clearly be seen in the context of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, as well as in the Pope, the Ayatollah, and even as I have observed, on a smaller level, late the late Sun Yung Moon, or some dictatorial pastor of a samll town church of Christ who convinces follwers that they alone are saved and that he alone knows all about it. I think David Koresh could fit this mold as well.
So Dawkins statement that Islam is evil, well, look at wherein the evil elements are. Same with Marxism, there may have been content and happy Communist workers in the old USSR, but Stalin was not obviously one of them.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:12 PM
 
278 posts, read 255,493 times
Reputation: 174
[quote=Nunnor;26997401]You atheists will never admit anything, and try to make all atheists throughout the history to look good as much as possible.

"The Soviet establishment again clashed with the churches under General Secretary Nikita Khrushchev's leadership in 1958–1964, a period when atheism was emphasized in the educational curriculum, and numerous state publications promoted atheistic views.[134] During this period, the number of churches fell from 20,000 to 10,000 from 1959 to 1965, and the number of synagogues dropped from 500 to 97. The number of working mosques also declined, falling from 1,500 to 500 within a decade."

Religion in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




But, we are talking about Stalin here. He died in 1953.
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