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Old 12-10-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,264,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Damnit I hate those shows! That's just not what it's actually like... but the reality of the phenomenon makes for boring entertainment I guess.

I never noticed the race thing though... maybe white people scare more easily?
I only mentioned it because that particular observation about that particular show amused me.

I have had certain experiences. I am certain these experiences happened. What I am unsure about is what actually caused them.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,212,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post

I have had certain experiences. I am certain these experiences happened. What I am unsure about is what actually caused them.
I'd have to climb into the same boat as you. Neither the religious nor the scientific explanations quite fit with what I've experienced which leaves me in a very "agnostical" place.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,342,673 times
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I kid you not, this is a true story:

I work in a restaurant that is supposedly haunted. Every employee claims to have "seen something" except for me. Even the inside cameras supposedly caught some strange stuff. I have never seen any of that footage, either. Then, about a month ago, me and two other people we in the kitchen and we hard a "thud". We all had our backs to the noise, but we all heard it and turned around like "what the heck?". What it was was a large shaker, like the kind used for sugar (you know, like the kind you see in coffee shops), that had somehow moved from where it was in the expo window to the top of one of the coolers below for a total distance of about a foot. One of the other cooks went into the office to watch the video to see what happened. A few other people went in, too, and they say that it definitely moved, but depending on the interpretation, it "looked like it was part of a chain reaction", as in, someone bumped the expo window causing the shaker to fall. Which is kind of weird as the shaker landed right-side up. Other people said that it clearly "jumped" off.

I make no claims on what actually happened. Like I wrote, we all had our backs to it. The chain-reaction scenario would make sense, and is plausible, but I dunno, kinda weird.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,569 posts, read 6,026,095 times
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No.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:18 PM
 
755 posts, read 632,692 times
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An old house creeks.

It's not setting, it's a ghost!

An untouched door closes.

It's not a breeze, it's a demon!

It's the opposite of Occam's Razor -- some people intentionally reach for the most complicated reasons to explain a phenomenon.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Florida
743 posts, read 1,390,638 times
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There is no way one can understand ghosts without having the experience personally. It has nothing to do with religion.
It is a matter of shifting frequency - either you are them.

There is a theory that we exist in a multiverse; that there are many worlds occupying what we perceive as our space.

For example look at that wire connected to your computer if you have DSL - does your telephone also connect to it? You can talk on the phone and look at your internet at the same time.
And your portable radio - all those voices are in your space. The radio just tunes to a certain frequency. And there are times aren't there when you can hear multiple voices?
And if you think that the pictures on your TV can only come thru that cable, how do they get onto a portable TV? And to any of you remember the pre-cable days? You had that "rabbit ear" antenna that you had to play with to get reception. The pictures have to be already in your space, you just need the proper equipment to see them.

Everything is Frequency.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:11 PM
 
561 posts, read 1,034,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicstargoat View Post
There is a good reason that personal accounts and anecdotes are NOT evidence.

People lie, exaggerate and hallucinate, but evidence does not.

Real things leave real evidence, it is just that simple.
The problems with human perception go way beyond simple lies, deception: Oftentimes people have experience that seem to originate externally, but are probably entirely subjective.

Usually, the brain receives signals that originate from external stimuli, and forms a preception/interpretation based on this input. However, sometimes one part of the brain will send a signal to another part of the brain, creating and experience that seems just as real as something that originates externally. This has been demonstrated in lab experiments where the visual cortex is artificially stimulated with an (safe) electrical charge. The subject (person) reports seeing something that appears to exist in the external environment, but in fact does not: the artificial electrical charge is creating a minor hallucination; this experience is almost certainly entirely subjective.

This is one of many examples: head trauma, schizophrenia, hallucinogenic drugs, and a number of other things can cause me to 'experience' hallucinations that seem thoroughly real in their subjective experience. These are extreme examples, but even 'normal' persons can experience more minor halluincations that seem real.

Basically, many aspects of human experience are highly subjective.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:57 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
283 posts, read 434,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Very good post. I would take matters a step further and ask if there is god with a program of desires concerning our behavior, why would this god fail to make itself unambiguously manifest as well as making the rules equally clear and proven? Instead we are provided with a huge menu of competing claims, none of which come with anything close to normal standards of proof or reliability.

Your question as to why God would not provide unequivocable proof of his existence is too easy for most bible-thumpers.

They would merely explain that if God were to prove himself to exist beyond refute, than it wouyld be too easy for us to believe, and thus those with the true Faith would not be rewarded after death with the golden ticket to heaven. They think this life is a sort of test to see who can remain a True Believer. That the world is a sort of winnowing process.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,130 posts, read 18,599,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickety_Split View Post
Your question as to why God would not provide unequivocable proof of his existence is too easy for most bible-thumpers.

They would merely explain that if God were to prove himself to exist beyond refute, than it wouyld be too easy for us to believe, and thus those with the true Faith would not be rewarded after death with the golden ticket to heaven. They think this life is a sort of test to see who can remain a True Believer. That the world is a sort of winnowing process.
Well, yeah, it could be any number of things straight out of the Carl Sagan identified "Dragon in My Garage" style of argument.
The Dragon In My Garage
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,094,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickety_Split View Post
Your question as to why God would not provide unequivocable proof of his existence is too easy for most bible-thumpers.

They would merely explain that if God were to prove himself to exist beyond refute, than it wouyld be too easy for us to believe, and thus those with the true Faith would not be rewarded after death with the golden ticket to heaven. They think this life is a sort of test to see who can remain a True Believer. That the world is a sort of winnowing process.
Imagine you are a child. You are told you have an earthly father. But you've never seen him. He's never visited you, never spoken to you, never provided you with a meal or the roof over your head. But you're told that you can pray to him and he'll provide for you. The fact that you're alive and living off the kindness of strangers is somehow proof that he does, in fact, provide. You spend your entire life searching for a glimpse of your earthly father but are admonished that this is an act of unbelief. This life is a test by your father ... designed to see if you're worthy to be in his presence one day. If you believe in him against all evidence, glorify and praise him always, one day, he'll reveal himself to you and take you into the mansion he's prepared for you.

Which begs the question ... if he loves you, why doesn't he simply do what fathers do? Right here and now? If an earthly father behaved like this, he'd be punished for child neglect. If an earthly father promises to pay child support -- later -- in theory at least he's known as a "deadbeat Dad".

"If you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall our father in heaven give good gifts to those who love him?" How much more, indeed. God needs to start living up to his own standards. Or even just match the standards of earthly fathers.
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