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Old 12-14-2012, 08:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
The Biblical definition of faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." I assume that is what you hope to perceive beyond what can be empirically known. In my experience that kind of perception requires disengaging your brain rather than pushing it further.

I stick with what I can see these days. I'm much happier that way, personally.
I can see where you are coming from. I am sorry you had a bad experience in the faith. It is understandable though with a lot of the people of faith being the exact opposite of what they profess.

It just boggles the mind to think of this reality and that it will all stop some day. Experiences you will never get to experience again, smells you will never smell again, memories that seem like they were in a different life time, people that you may never see again. It puts a knot in my stomach. Part of being human I guess.

I stumbled upon a article that said scientists have found a way to test to see if this is all some kind of advanced computer simulation. So then what is outside of this simulation? I'm sure you know what I think it is. . .
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
I can see where you are coming from. I am sorry you had a bad experience in the faith. It is understandable though with a lot of the people of faith being the exact opposite of what they profess.
I am not one of those people who complains of the hypocrites in the church, as they exist outside it as well. My issue was more with the Biblical teachings with how life is supposed to work and how it actually works -- especially the bits about god interacting with you but nothing discernible ever actually occurs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
It just boggles the mind to think of this reality and that it will all stop some day. Experiences you will never get to experience again, smells you will never smell again, memories that seem like they were in a different life time, people that you may never see again. It puts a knot in my stomach. Part of being human I guess.
It will not necessarily ever stop, but my involvement in it will. This need not be a source of angst. Mostly it bothers people because we've been conditioned to think it's supposed to bother us. A lot of it is ego: saying to ourselves that this is all about ME and my wants and needs. Life isn't about you or me at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
I stumbled upon an article that said scientists have found a way to test to see if this is all some kind of advanced computer simulation. So then what is outside of this simulation? I'm sure you know what I think it is. . .
As a software developer I can tell you that if this is a software simulation then behind it is a very mediocre hack who does not adequately test before he releases code to production.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
I know Atheists have interesting thoughts so I am just curious if you think about the same things and what is it that your brain comes up with.
No, I don't think of the things you mention.

I accept the Universe as it is and I am very happy to be a part of it. I have a wonderful life and I enjoy my life very much. I follow the Golden Rule.

I guess my view of the Universe is best expressed by the message I saw on a tee-shirt worn by a very big-busted young lady at Daytona Beach - "What you see is what you get".
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Perhaps it has always been there. We are linear beings with our humanity an ephemeral state which is marked by definitive beginnings and ends. A consequence is that we tend to impose that time model on the cosmos and wonder how it began and when and how it might end.

Human time models may mean nothing at all when applied to the grand cosmic questions.
Oh I see! We as humans are used to definite beginnings and ends, but that doesn't apply to everything. Now that's food for thought, I like it
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Old 12-21-2012, 03:46 PM
 
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Jaggy is basically right.
It is what it is. It has always been and always will be. As when you say - oh, we have scientific proof to Big Bang - question arises - well, what was there before it? As the most fundamental law of physics says - something does not appear from nothing. Hence, say, there was a universe, that collapsed into itself, and Big Banged into our universe - but then what was before THAT universe? And so on, ad absurdum.
Hence, point is not, what is our universe. Point is - it IS. Always was, always will be.
As a result, you are looking at a physical universe that is - yes, eternal. As physical matter, in whatever forms, IS. Always.
There is something else, that IS - consciousness. Very, very basic logic tells you, that if consciousness is in our universe, and universe, as a fundamental principle, is eternal then, it is illogical to presume, that consciousness is for OUR universe only, and never was in any other universe.
Hence, logical conclusion is - consciousness IS.
Hence, we have TWO universes - one of intelligent and one of non-intelligent. As difference between intelligent and non-intelligent is simple - intelligent is conscious that it is conscious, while non-intelligent is not.
Now, more interesting question is - what exactly is the organizational principle of the universe? As if you tell me that "laws" of physics and chemistry and so on simply "devloped by itself", that is insulting my intelligence. This simply does not happen.
Hence, there is an organizational principle that is guiding EVERYTHING in ANY universe, and is as eternal, as the universe.
This organizational principle is - consciousness. EVERYTHING is conscious. It is conscious in various degrees. Like I said - the demarcation line is HOW something is conscious.
Anything that is conscious only as its function, is on the nature, or non-intelligent side of universe.
Anything that is conscious that it is conscious - is on the intelligent side of universe.
As a result, there are two "universes" - one of non intelligent, or Nature, and one of intelligent.
With that being said, that "physical", or universe, as well as intelligent, are eternal, and the universe we are in, is of continuous change, it is logical to presume, that eternal is in ETERNAL, and only manifests itself into what we perceive as a physical universe.
And that sums up my logical excursion.
There are two eternal universes - Realm of Permanence, in which eternal exists, and realm of change, which is, basically our universe. In a very simplified manner. As the Realm of Permanence contains everything eternal in it, and in it, at the lowest level, at the physical plane of the physical world, is what we call our universe, in which is what we call Earth.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:34 PM
 
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I think the universe may be ultimately unknowable. My understanding is that when theorists calculate the mass needed for the universe, dark matter accounts for the majority of it. Also, the observable universe is only a fraction of the whole-shebang. Stephen Hawking stated that what we can not see about the universe is something fundamentally different from what we can. Then consider that there is structure in the clusters and groups of galaxies.... There may be something bigger going on then what we can see. Then when you look at particles on the quantum level, complete randomness, bouncing in and out of reality, string theory, multi dimensions, multiverses.... It's weird!
But then, the universe would have to be strange and possibly unimaginably complex to give rise to conscious being like us. Life emerging appears to be only a strange quirk.
I think our knowledge will reach some barrier that we can not cross, physically or with scientific theory. Hawking likened it to a fish living in a fishbowl. A fish, from it's point of view, could come up with laws; physical and mathematical, from inside the bowl that would be absolutely correct from it's perspective. The problem is, the fishbowl is distorted and round and not a true picture of reality.
I liken our observable universe to the fishbowl. And like the fish, we can't get out of it. I have a suggestive hunch we are stuck with a limited view of what else is going on.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,853 posts, read 18,557,746 times
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The problem, or among the multitude of problems, with trying to explain the universe, is that we do not know how far along what we do know, takes us.

We know a great deal more than did the star gazers of ancient history, and when we read their attempts at explanations we scoff at all the superstition and false mechanics they employed to advance theories. What we do not know is how much needs to be known to understand it all, nor whether what we now know places us in a fairly advanced position, or actually leaves us stuck in what is still the frontier stages of cosmological exploration and comprehension. We just don't know how naive we might still be. 2000 years from now future generations may be scoffing at our efforts.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
Not really a leap of faith.(Sorry if I didn't articulate it very well) To some extent everyone has faith of some form. I guess I mean, do you ever try to push your brain further so that you might perceive the existence of everything beyond what is written on paper in some complex math formula that science is trying to figure out?
Pushing your brain in order to believe that which has no observable reason to believe? That does not sound like pushing. That sounds like turning it off or intentionally ignoring it.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
I can see where you are coming from. I am sorry you had a bad experience in the faith. It is understandable though with a lot of the people of faith being the exact opposite of what they profess.

It just boggles the mind to think of this reality and that it will all stop some day. Experiences you will never get to experience again, smells you will never smell again, memories that seem like they were in a different life time, people that you may never see again. It puts a knot in my stomach. Part of being human I guess.
I would say for some people it boggles the feelings more than the mind.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdaelectro View Post
It just boggles the mind to think of this reality and that it will all stop some day.
I doubt the Universe will ever stop, but our lives will definitely stop at some point.

Why does that boggle your mind? Surely, you have seen lots of creatures like insects die. We are not any different than they are. Yeah, our brain is better than theirs, but so what? They have more legs.

Enjoy your life while you have it, and try to do more good than harm.
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