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Old 12-13-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I've had a lot of experience with theists who live under rocks when not going to church ;-)

For many, theism is a shorthand worldview that absolves them of the need to actually look at reality or think about it. They have many slippery-slope concerns about ideas that differ from theirs; such ideas are dangerous or crazy by definition.
Do you often initially relate well to people who end up being dogmatic crazies?

I also think the bolded is far from typical for a weekly mainline Protestant churchgoer.

Last edited by ElijahAstin; 12-13-2012 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
Do you often initially relate well to people who end up being dogmatic crazies?

I also think the bolded is far from typical for a weekly mainline Protestant churchgoer.
Thank you. It is.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:41 PM
 
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Not any more. I used to when I was younger, but eventually learned it was pointless at least 95% of the time. After people become adults it's very, very, difficult/highly unlikely they will change their views. Even if you present a well-reasoned argument based on overwhelming scientific evidence that contradicts their religious beliefs/conceptions/etc., they simply won't accept the evidence.

This tendency certainly isn't limited to religious persons; almost all of us have at least a modicum of irrational beliefs, tendencies, etc. For instance, when I get a perishable food item, I'm always inclined to reach to the very back of the shelf - even if the expiration for all the items exactly the same! Logically, I know there's probably no reason for it, but it's just an irrational tendency I have.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
Do you often initially relate well to people who end up being dogmatic crazies?
I'm not sure what the point of your question is. I basically avoid dogmatic crazies these days, but I probably wouldn't relate well to such people right out of the chute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
I also think the bolded is far from typical for a weekly mainline Protestant churchgoer.
I had the misfortune to grow up in an IFCA church, not bats__t crazy evangelicalism but not very mild either. My late 2nd wife was a Methodist but from a rural congregation and I didn't frankly see that much difference ... her stepfather was a cousin of Jim Bakker, of all people. This probably colors my perspective. Since those days I've met people from other mainline denominations, particularly Presbyterians, and find them much less doctrinaire. Most recently I've had experience with Universalists, who are so open and inclusive that it's hard for me to even think of them as a religious denomination. So I'm certainly aware of the variety that's out there.

Still ... I feel I have crossed a rather wide gulf even from liberal Christianity by denying the existence of the two sacred cows that even liberals generally buy into -- the existence of god and of an afterlife. While a liberal will not react to these views with as much intolerance, and a minority of liberals probably hold these beliefs pretty loosely, I don't think it exactly sets them at ease, either. People cling to these belief systems and all the pomp, circumstance and ritual that prop them up, for a reason. They want the comfort it seemingly provides, and people like me tend to rain on that parade even when we try not to.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Do you encourage other people to be atheists/agnostics?
I encourage people to dismiss and resist the application of unsubstantiated and nonsense claims. That by necessity includes religion given there is no argument, evidence, data or reasoning on offer to even lend a modicum of credence to the claim there is a god.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
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I don't try to change anyone. Most of the people I know are Christians. I don't believe in what they believe, but that's fine. My boyfriend is a born again Christian so we've had some banter, but that's about it.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:55 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I'm not sure what the point of your question is. I basically avoid dogmatic crazies these days, but I probably wouldn't relate well to such people right out of the chute.
I'm saying that because you like these people enough to go to a concert with them, and you "probably wouldn't relate well to" dogmatic crazies off the bat, they probably won't turn out to be dogmatic crazies either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I had the misfortune to grow up in an IFCA church, not bats__t crazy evangelicalism but not very mild either. My late 2nd wife was a Methodist but from a rural congregation and I didn't frankly see that much difference ... her stepfather was a cousin of Jim Bakker, of all people. This probably colors my perspective. Since those days I've met people from other mainline denominations, particularly Presbyterians, and find them much less doctrinaire. Most recently I've had experience with Universalists, who are so open and inclusive that it's hard for me to even think of them as a religious denomination. So I'm certainly aware of the variety that's out there.
That has to be it, because based on all the aggregate data I've seen, they're basically on par with Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and Lutherans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Still ... I feel I have crossed a rather wide gulf even from liberal Christianity by denying the existence of the two sacred cows that even liberals generally buy into -- the existence of god and of an afterlife. While a liberal will not react to these views with as much intolerance, and a minority of liberals probably hold these beliefs pretty loosely, I don't think it exactly sets them at ease, either. People cling to these belief systems and all the pomp, circumstance and ritual that prop them up, for a reason. They want the comfort it seemingly provides, and people like me tend to rain on that parade even when we try not to.
I think it's far less an issue of "raining on parades" than it is "don't preach at me," which is not a hypocritical request from most Mainline types.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
I think it's far less an issue of "raining on parades" than it is "don't preach at me," which is not a hypocritical request from most Mainline types.
Perhaps you have a point. I'm certainly going to allow them to be themselves and if they can do the same for me, it'll work out fine.

It may be that the fundamentalist zeitgeist is so ... well, fundamentally different from the mainstream that I haven't fully accounted for that difference. I haven't spent any time to speak of getting inside the head of mainstream church folk. This may be my golden opportunity for some sociological research ;-)
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Nope. Never had any interest. I don't like it when people try to persuade me to go their way so why would I do that to others?
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
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I'll argue about anything, but tend to view religion as something to avoid unless a specific aspect of a belief seems hazardous to others...like when one guy thought global warming wouldn't cause flooding, because there wouldn't be another worldwide flood after Noah's flood. His thinking wasn't even supported by the Bible, but they were his beliefs nonetheless. I don't recall specifically attempting to get people to lose their religion, unless that came up in the existing discussion. I may have done it in the past and am not recalling it though, at some point or other.
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