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Old 12-18-2012, 01:38 PM
 
5 posts, read 3,996 times
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[url=http://youtu.be/_q-_T87j1MY]President Obama's Complete Speech at Vigil in Newtown, Connecticut - YouTube[/url]

Obama used quotes from the Christian Bible, and specifically mentioned quotes of what Jesus said at a PUBLIC Memorial event. He also said "God Bless", "Pray for the victims", "Jesus said this and that", etc.

I thought we have separation of church and state?! What if one of the victims family were nonbelievers or non-Christians?
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,501 posts, read 16,987,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Smash View Post
President Obama's Complete Speech at Vigil in Newtown, Connecticut - YouTube

Obama used quotes from the Christian Bible, and specifically mentioned quotes of what Jesus said at a PUBLIC Memorial event. He also said "God Bless", "Pray for the victims", "Jesus said this and that", etc.

I thought we have separation of church and state?! What if one of the victims family were nonbelievers or non-Christians?
"Separation of Religion and State" is a legalistic term and applies to the writing of laws and policy. Nothing prevents a president or other public government officiald from expressing their own views about non-legal matters. It may cause them to gain or loose public popularity, but it is not illegal.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:49 PM
 
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Nothing prevents a public figure from expressing his own beliefs. Mr. Obama is a Christian and is allowed his own expression of belief in his speeches.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:33 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,316 posts, read 12,922,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Nothing prevents a public figure from expressing his own beliefs. Mr. Obama is a Christian and is allowed his own expression of belief in his speeches.
Mr. Obama says he's a Christian, but I would be shocked if he weren't actually an atheist/agnostic.

Either way, I think Mr. Smash could use a primer on basic constitutional law.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,866 posts, read 10,477,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
Mr. Obama says he's a Christian, but I would be shocked if he weren't actually an atheist/agnostic.

Either way, I think Mr. Smash could use a primer on basic constitutional law.
It's been speculated on and you may be right, but Mr. Obama certainly portrays himself as a Protestant and behaves publicly in a manner that is in accordance with that. I think that it's entirely possible the man is in fact a theist, but I do not think it likely that he's a particularly radical or activist one. Religion seems like a private matter to him.

It's both legal and acceptable for him to quote scripture at a funeral, and if it was my child I'd take the words in the spirit in which they were given. Indeed, I think that the poetry in some of the passages he mentioned are rather moving in context, and I've always enjoyed Ecclesiastes in particular for its poetry and philosophical spirituality (ashes to ashes dust to dust etc). Scripture can be used for tribalism, religious intolerance, and plain deluding yourself, but when someone uses those words in an earnest and heartfelt way when trying to connect with you on a human level using something that has a lot of meaning to them, I can put aside my misgivings about it and appreciate the beauty in what they're trying to communicate if its something honest, something true.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:54 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
It's been speculated on and you may be right, but Mr. Obama certainly portrays himself as a Protestant and behaves publicly in a manner that is in accordance with that. I think that it's entirely possible the man is in fact a theist, but I do not think it likely that he's a particularly radical or activist one. Religion seems like a private matter to him.

It's both legal and acceptable for him to quote scripture at a funeral and if it was my child I'd take the words in the spirit in which they were given. Indeed, I think that the poetry in some of the passages he mentioned are rather moving in context, and I've always enjoyed Ecclesiastes for its poetry and philosophical spirituality (ashes to ashes dust to dust etc). The scripture can be used for tribalism, religious intolerance, and plain deluding yourself, but when someone uses those words in an earnest and heartfelt way when trying to connect with you on a human level using something that has a lot of meaning to them, I can put aside my misgivings about it and appreciate the beauty in that.
Religion is a necessary part of American politics. Obama could very easily be talking the talk, just as other presidents like Ronald Reagan and Dwight Eisenhower did (the latter two weren't necessary atheists, but they are far less religious than their public statements would lead one to believe).
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:06 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,827 posts, read 7,303,315 times
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I noticed that too, I thought it was out of place and thought maybe he was just saying that because he thought the majority wanted to hear that....after talking to the families, maybe they all asked about god and so on or he asked about their religions?...it could be it was in agreement
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:10 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,866 posts, read 10,477,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
Religion is a necessary part of American politics. Obama could very easily be talking the talk, just as other presidents like Ronald Reagan and Dwight Eisenhower did (the latter two weren't necessary atheists, but they are far less religious than their public statements would lead one to believe).
This is true, I am not an American and do not always understand the nuances of the relationship between religion and politics in your country.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:35 AM
 
Location: California
37,055 posts, read 42,002,003 times
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There is nothing wrong with quoting something from the bible, it's literature afterall. As far as saying people should pray for the victims, that's a pretty customary thing to say given the scope of the tragedy and the the sheer number of people involved in the memorial. It's bound to resonate with some of the survivors and is offered up for comforts sake.

I'm as "church and state seperation" as they come but I'm not concerned with this sort of thing since it's not out of place. Everything is situational.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
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I am an Atheist who does not like the Jerimiah-Wright-hugging Obama one bit, but I think it very appropriate for him to include his religious comments when he gives a speech.
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