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Old 12-18-2012, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Sometimes Miami sometimes Australia
1,093 posts, read 2,284,535 times
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In another radical opinion, the Connecticut shooting, according to Focus on the Family founder James Dobson, is linked to gay marriage and a systematic denial of God and religion in schools.

James Dobson blames Connecticut shooting on gay marriage, God denial - National Top News | Examiner.com

In 1962 we kicked prayer out of the schools. In 1963 we kicked God's word out of ours schools. In 1980 we kicked the Ten Commandments out of our schools. We've kicked God out of our public school system. And I think God would say to us, 'Hey, I'll be glad to protect your children, but you've got to invite me back into your world first. I'm not going to go where I'm not wanted. I am a gentlemen.

Bryan Fischer: God Did Not Protect Connecticut Shooting Victims Because Prayer Banned In Schools (VIDEO)

yet another prophetic sign and Divine judgment upon America’s ongoing, unrepented, government-protected child-murder of 3,000+ children inside the wombs of their mothers EVERY DAY, DAY AFTER DAY, MONTH AFTER MONTH, YEAR AFTER YEAR, DECADE AFTER DECADE, now extending from January 1973 almost 40 years to December 2012!!!!!!!!!”

SC anti-abortion group: God caused Sandy Hook shooting as punishment - Palmetto Public Record

These types of comments are evidence that religion is destructive and diseased
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:00 PM
 
12,449 posts, read 9,963,829 times
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It is absolutely stupid. Punish married gay people by killing a bunch of innocent kindergarteners. Because that makes sense.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,296 posts, read 18,643,446 times
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The views being promoted by Dobson are not out of sync with the Old Testament in terms of identifying the culprit. Yahweh was a real hands on god, a micro manager who personally intervened to dish out rewards and punishments. Yahweh also liked to jerk people around, even his most faithful followers. He made Abraham believe that he was going to have to stab his own son to death, and he made poor Job the victim of a series of cruel practical jokes. Yahweh could go large scale in his punishments, such as killing all the first born in each Egyptian home, drowning Pharaoh's army in the Red Sea, collapsing the walls of Jericho and such.

So, a capricious god who is indiscriminate about using slaughter to send a message, isn't really out of step with how the Bible depicts the Big Fellow.

What is different of course is that the Dobson's of the world must settle for ex post facto identification of god's handiwork. Something bad happens and they pop up and say "This was because God was pissed at............(insert popular Christian target)" It is Dobson's misfortune to live in the age of verification, where claims of some suspension of natural law may be quickly shot down by skeptics demanding proof. The Bible authors suffered no such restraints, thus their Yahweh could work his wonders out in the open, even announcing them ahead of time, and then staging some impossible spectacle which would not be seen again until Cecil B. DeMille came along.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:31 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,521,771 times
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Wow, some people can really stoop low. I suppose he thinks Lanza was doing 'God's work', just like the 9/11 bombers were.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:16 PM
 
40,245 posts, read 26,840,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The views being promoted by Dobson are not out of sync with the Old Testament in terms of identifying the culprit. Yahweh was a real hands on god, a micro manager who personally intervened to dish out rewards and punishments. Yahweh also liked to jerk people around, even his most faithful followers. He made Abraham believe that he was going to have to stab his own son to death, and he made poor Job the victim of a series of cruel practical jokes. Yahweh could go large scale in his punishments, such as killing all the first born in each Egyptian home, drowning Pharaoh's army in the Red Sea, collapsing the walls of Jericho and such.

So, a capricious god who is indiscriminate about using slaughter to send a message, isn't really out of step with how the Bible depicts the Big Fellow.

What is different of course is that the Dobson's of the world must settle for ex post facto identification of god's handiwork. Something bad happens and they pop up and say "This was because God was pissed at............(insert popular Christian target)" It is Dobson's misfortune to live in the age of verification, where claims of some suspension of natural law may be quickly shot down by skeptics demanding proof. The Bible authors suffered no such restraints, thus their Yahweh could work his wonders out in the open, even announcing them ahead of time, and then staging some impossible spectacle which would not be seen again until Cecil B. DeMille came along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Wow, some people can really stoop low. I suppose he thinks Lanza was doing 'God's work', just like the 9/11 bombers were.
The tragedy is that Fundamentalism is a cancer of ignorance that feeds on the ignorant and intellectually challenged . . . who are with us in large numbers. The lower 60% of the population intellectually need something other than atheism and its inconclusive science babble to form what limited philosophy of life they are capable of formulating. Atheists would be better served by focusing on invalidating the Fundamentalists who represent the greatest threat, beat back any attempts to legislate their ignorance, and essentially go easy on (if not encourage) the more benevolent and reasonable theistic representatives out there. The all out carpet-bombing of religion and God and the ACLU attacks on traditions and institutions based on them will create a lot of societal damage. It will leave a large percentage of the population adrift philosophically and given their limitations that can never be a good thing. Just saying.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,376,402 times
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Oh yeah, we all knew that was coming! How ignorant and hurtful..the parents and family members of those who died will really get feeling better hearing that!! Stupid zealots!
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:36 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,908,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tropical87 View Post
These types of comments are evidence that religion is destructive and diseased
Religion is no fundamentally different from any other organized group and the group mentality that comes along with it. I'm irreligious myself. I just think making a blanket statement that one large group is flawed for sharing the types of faults that are characteristic (in a basic sense) to all large groups is unhelpful.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:06 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,707,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Atheists would be better served by focusing on invalidating the Fundamentalists who represent the greatest threat, beat back any attempts to legislate their ignorance, and essentially go easy on (if not encourage) the more benevolent and reasonable theistic representatives out there.
Many innocuous things can lead to Pneumonia. We do not just treat Pneumonia but the things that can lead to it too. It is a many pronged attack and this is a good thing.

Similarly while you are right the real trouble is fundamentalism and not moderates - it should be recognized that much of moderation is the fertile soil in which fundamentalism can grow.

In my own country for example there is a women who keeps showing up on television claiming we all have our own angel and it travels everywhere with us and if we listen we can hear its voice guiding us and loving us.

On the face of it while a patently baseless and nonsense claim what she is saying appears harmless and innocuous. It sounds lovely and comforting and what could be wrong with that?

Meanwhile however individuals with mental or physical conditions one of which is hearing voices in their head listen to that womans message and put stock in the notion that rather than suffering an illness they are hearing the voices of angels and even god. Therefore rather than seek medical attention they listen to the voices and even carry out what they say. Our media is punctuated with stories of where THAT leads.

Patently false claims even happy sounding pretty ones can be damaging and need to be challenged at all levels. The public claims of theists based as they are on the notion there is a god a notion entirely without evidence might seem pretty and harmless on the face of it but they are the fertile ground in which grows the horrors we all too often have to witness.

So I agree with you that atheists (and I would add theists) need to address and combat fundamentalism I would in no way say the general war against theism and religion is mutually exclusive. We need to do both and we need to go through the world countering those who make totally baseless claims and dress them up as Truth.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:28 AM
 
Location: California
30,723 posts, read 33,562,043 times
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Quote:
In 1962 we kicked prayer out of the schools. In 1963 we kicked God's word out of ours schools. In 1980 we kicked the Ten Commandments out of our schools. We've kicked God out of our public school system. And I think God would say to us, 'Hey, I'll be glad to protect your children, but you've got to invite me back into your world first. I'm not going to go where I'm not wanted. I am a gentlemen.
This rediculous MEME needs to die. If I never hear it again it would be too soon. How often are the idiots going to repeat this crap?
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,198 posts, read 9,115,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Atheists would be better served by focusing on invalidating the Fundamentalists who represent the greatest threat, beat back any attempts to legislate their ignorance, and essentially go easy on (if not encourage) the more benevolent and reasonable theistic representatives out there. The all out carpet-bombing of religion and God and the ACLU attacks on traditions and institutions based on them will create a lot of societal damage. It will leave a large percentage of the population adrift philosophically and given their limitations that can never be a good thing. Just saying.
In practice this is what I focus on. I fundamentally agree with you, although more in terms of picking my battles than in absolute terms.

Religion is so deeply ingrained in society that only a gradual removal over several generations could possibly work without causing more harm than good.
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