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Old 02-02-2013, 12:24 AM
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,555 posts, read 5,399,322 times
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Originally Posted by logline View Post
......Aliens from another planet certainly did not seed earth with DNA
Hell, that's probably what we'll end up doing out there someday.

Old 02-02-2013, 12:54 AM
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,555 posts, read 5,399,322 times
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Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
One thing I am thankful for.
Scoffers will not be in heaven . not a one ..
And you'll hear nothing but beautiful music
for the rest of eternity!

Old 02-03-2013, 04:13 PM
Location: Ohio
19,883 posts, read 14,224,806 times
Reputation: 16076
Originally Posted by cpsTN View Post
Why is everything from the right always nonesense but we are supposed to bow the great LEFT all the time?

Charles Sands
No one living or dead is to the right of me, but that does not alter the fact the conflicting stories presented in the Hebrew works is totally nonsense. There is no doubt it was three separate stories (E, J & P) edited together.

I'm not sure what label one would apply to a group of people who are so blind as to refuse to see that it is a meld of stories, but "insane" comes to mind.

Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
It remains possible that the mythological Noah tale found in the Bible could be based on actual events.
Yes, indeed, and within about 50 years, there'll be absolute evidence.

Originally Posted by pendleton42 View Post
the flood may have been a real life flood but a local flood like the one that made the black sea and gave way to the legend. for it would havebeen a world wide flood to them. at the time. but the rest is just fairy tale time
Well, that's where you're wrong and not up to date on the latest research coming out of prestigious institutions in the US (and elsewhere).

Yeah, I'm talking scientifically peer-reviewed articles published in professional academic journals, specifically to wit: Richard Firestone of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

There is now overwhelming evidence of a global cataclysm that took place 10,000 BCE to 8,000 BCE.

The triggering event for this global catastrophe is an asteroid or comet that entered Earth's atmosphere and broke into pieces, striking different areas of the Earth.

We know this even is responsible for the creation of the Carolina Bays; that it was responsible for the extinction of large mammals such as the Giant Bear, Giant Sloth, Mastodons, Mammoths and Sabre-toothed Tigers; that it deposited large quantities of nano-diamonds, tektites and spheroidal metals -- all evidence of celestial objects impacting Earth -- covering 70% of North America; that this event was responsible for the destruction of at least one culture/civilization in North America -- the Clovis Culture -- and that it may have resulted in the depopulation of North America, and to a lesser extent other areas on Earth affected by the event.

It is also now believed that this event caused groups in North America to flee southward into Meso-America, creating conflicts and environmental (food) pressures that caused the collapse of some groups there.

This event is tied to the complete destruction of the Western Ice Sheet in Antarctica.

It is also tied to a growing number of geological anomalies, such as huge deposits of sand in the Andes and Himalayas, and the sand is not organic/indigenous to those areas....limestone sand in the Andes? Not even possible.

That this event created global tsunamis is more than merely plausible, it is likely based on scientific evidence, and it is these tsunamis ravishing the world's oceans that gave rise to the plethora of Deluge Myths incorrectly described as "Flood Myths."

Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
...this story was supposedly found on 4000 year old tablets
It's older than that.

The tablets clearly state that they are translated from the Sumerian, which dates them back 7,000 years ago.

Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
There is a lot of speculation that during the course of prehistory, humanity was tinkered with genetically to produce homeo sapiens. (This has been one explanation for the dramatic leap from more primitive models i.e. Neanderthal to Cro Magnon). There is a very real possibility that somewhere along the line things went very, very wrong and they decided to start over. I am not making this theory up, logline, do a little googleing and you will discover that it is generally an accepted theory.

Originally Posted by logline View Post
Um, ok.

That topic was definitely not addressed in the thread.

(slowly taking a step away from 20yrsinBranson)
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
By who or what? Gods? Aliens?

Who are the proponents of this "explanation?" How widely accepted do you claim it to be?

"Generally accepted?"
I'm a proponent.

It's generally accepted to me.

The simple truth is that Evolution breaks down when it comes to humans. Humans totally defy Evolution.

In other words, if Evolution is true ---and I conclude based on the scientific evidence that it is true -- then Homo Erectus should dominate earth and Homo Sapiens Sapiens should not exist.

What is Evolution? It is nothing more than a genetic mutation that becomes dominant.

The rate of Evolution is based on

1] the amount of natural background radiation
2] the length of time it takes an organism to reach sexual maturity
3] the rate of reproduction
4] gestation period
5] litter size

alter any one of those variables, and you alter the rate of Evolution.

When we look at organisms, we can readily see that as an organism becomes more complex, its litter size decreases; it's rate of reproduction decreases; and it takes longer for the organism to reach sexual maturity.

Elephants: one calf per liter (twins rarely); long gestation period; slow rate of reproduction (influenced by gestation period); long time to reach sexual maturity.

There are three species of elephants -- African, Indian and Pygmy.

Same with horses, except there are 4 species of horses.....wait a minute....there are more than 4 hours, yes but those were created by humans through the process of selective breeding.

Same with cows, except there are 3 species of cows --- all others were created by humans through the process of selective breeding.

For humans, the time it takes to reach sexual maturity (about 13 years); the reproductive rate (annually at most); the gestation period (9 months); and the litter size (1 infrequently 2 and rarely 3) all work against Human Evolution as we know it.

Not only that, but we are expected to believe that humans evolved during periods of tremendous environmental stress, when the scientific evidence repeatedly proves that species, especially mammals and humans, do not reproduce -- or reproduce at significantly lower rates -- during periods of environmental stress.

If you crunch the numbers, using the rate of mutation, the reproductive rates of humans and spread of mutations through a population, there is no possible way -- and no scientific reason -- for Homo Sapiens Sapiens, Homo Sapiens or Homo Neanderthalensis to exist.

That doesn't even being to address other issues, like how humans came to have 2 brains, and my favorite...how did two separate unrelated species arise with the same mutation...specifically the speech gene.

In attempting to explain the anomalies of Human Evolution, we should consider all possibilities (excepting the nonsensical "creator god")

And all of that has to be viewed in the context of reality.

And the reality is that both the Oronteus Finaeaus Map and the Piri Re'is Map are azithumal maps.

And the reality is that you cannot create an azithumal map unless you are airborne.

And the reality is that to create the Oronteus Finaiues Map, you must be airborne -- sub-orbital -- about 80-90 miles above the Earth's surface.

And seeing how your text books claim Britain discovered Antarctica in 1820, and seeing how mountains were not discovered in Antarctica until 1958, and seeing how rivers were not discovered until the 1990s, then both the Oronteus Finaeaus Map and the Piri Re'is Map create some serious freaking problems, since both correctly show mountains and rivers in their proper locations geographically.

And the last time Antarctica was ice-free was 10,000 BCE - 8,000 BCE.

Given those facts, you wanna tell me who was flying around orbiting earth 12,000 years ago?

Surely you must have some idea, no?

The US military didn't start using azithumal maps until the late 1960s.

Who on this forum would like to know why?

I just told you why: You must be airborne at extremely high altitudes.

Get it?

You never had space vehicles until Russia launched the first satellite -- Sputnik. Then the US started launching satellites. Then the US started putting cameras on satellites to take pictures of Earth from orbit and that was the mid-1960s.

Get it now?

In the army we never really had a use for azithumal maps, but for pilots, in the air force and navy, they are very useful. They're also useful for ships. I never saw one until I was in operations planning air support for a mission.

Anyway, reality says you are forced to draw one of two possible conclusions...

1] Humans were capable of space flight in the distant past -- at least sub-orbital; or
2] Extra-terrestrials were on Earth.

If that offends, frightens or disturbs you it should......because whatever the Truth is....and I don't claim to know the Truth....it isn't what you're being told or taught.....and you ought to be seeking the Truth....however ugly or unsettling it might be.

That's what I detest most about christianity and religious beliefs in general, because they block us from seeking or knowing the Truth.

The so-called Flood as recorded by the Hebrews never happened, but there is evidence of global calamity, including tsunamis sweeping across the Earth's oceans, and christians clinging to their silly Noah story doesn't help us find the Truth (whatever it might be).

Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
no DNA was put on this planet by anyone...that's my take on it
Well, that would conflict with the views of the two Nobel Prize-winning scientists who discovered DNA.

Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
If "life" was deposited here by some asteroid, then it's an accident, so many planets never had life on them.. also by accident. Or there's life on many but in such a form that we don't recognize it as such. I think we're accidental beings.
The two Nobel Prize-winning scientists who discovered DNA each independently came to the conclusion that life did not originate on Earth for different reasons.

By the time the Earth reaches a stage of development geologically that would allow for the formation amino acids, you're way too late in Earth's geologic history for Evolution to start at that point. The obvious conclusion is that DNA came from somewhere else to Earth.

With respect to humans, we require iron. Not a problem as iron is both abundant on Earth and is readily accessible....humans used to dig iron out of the side of rock-facing were it had been deposited just as they dug coal out of seams on rock-facings.

Zinc? Not as abundant as iron, but fairly abundant nonetheless, and readily accessible to humans as well.

But the other minerals and metals that humans require? They are neither abundant -- existing only as trace elements on Earth --- nor are they accessible to any life forms on Earth -- these necessary rare minerals and metals are locked deep in the Earth's mantle (not the crust).

The logical conclusion is that DNA came from a planet where those minerals and metals were both abundant and readily accessible to life forms.

They developed two theories: General Panspermia -- life came to Earth an a bit of asteroid/meteor; and Directed Panspermia -- an intelligent civilization launched rockets, perhaps with something akin to a MIRV/MARV bus that kicked off life as it passed by systems that had life-supporting planets.

Do terrestrial planets form in G-Class and K-Class star systems, and are such planets capable of supporting life?

Yes, we know that to be true because we reside on a terrestrial planet capable of supporting life in a G-Class Star System --- our own Sun is a G-Class Star....so logic dictates that if you want to search for life, you search what/where? How about G/K-Class Star systems in our own freaking galaxy?

"We found a planet orbiting a Giant Blue Star, but there's no life." Really? You don't say, and gosh, you only wasted $10 Million in tax payer money to tell me the obvious - why would there be life in Giant Blue Star system? Duh!

Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
For all it's worth, a planet full of super amoebas and viruses exists someplace...
Not likely.

If Crick and Watson, the two Nobel Prize-winning scientists who discovered DNA are correct, and I believe they are, then any life-form that existed would be humanoid...meaning that the pinnacle of Evolution for all life is a bi-pedal humanoid.

It's outward appearance will be heavily influenced by gravity, the exact nature of the star it orbits, and the content of the atmosphere, but generally humanoid. Star Trek: The Next Generation portrays extra-terrestrial life more accurately than the silly Star Wars.

Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
...and they have no need for us humans and are not trying to contact us. We think we're so worth contacting and feel so special but I doubt we are...
That thinking is heavily flawed and very ethnocentric.

A truly benevolent species would never interfere with a culture that was immature or inferior.

In other words, just because we run around Earth interfering with and destroying lesser developed or inferior cultures and ruining the lives of those people, it does not logically follow that other species roam the Galaxy mucking things up.

The fact that we use radio waves as a means of communication does not mean other species will follow suit.

Don't solar flares interfere with communications? Doesn't the ionosphere hamper communications in certain frequency ranges, especially the AM Band and to a lesser extent the FM Band? Yes.

Then, logically, it is quite possible, even likely, that on other planets, their star/sun may interfere with radio communications on a constant basis, or their atmosphere may be such that radio communications are impossible.

In that case, they would have developed a different means of communicating that may not be compatible or detectable with our systems.

What's happening in the world right now? We're discovering that radio signals, which we used for only a few decades, are easily degraded and interfered with by others, and thus the shift to digital/fiber-optics.

Will we use radio forever? Probably not, so then why would you insist that others do so?

Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
For instance, to me it is just as half-cocked to say, for example, "The building of the pyramids was far too technologically advanced for the Egyptians of 6-7000 years ago, therefore aliens must have been involved" ...
In a sense, they are aliens, whether from our world or another.

According to the Sumerians, the Deluge took place during the Age of Leo. The Age of Leo was 10,000 BCE to - 8,000 BCE and comports with the scientific evidence.

The Sumerians also say the Great Pyramids were built after the Deluge, and to honor the person who designed and built the Pyramids, the sphinx...the body of a Lion -- for Age of Leo (the Lion) -- was built and the head originally depicted the builder's image, known as Thoth in Egypt, El Berith in Canaanite cultures, and Ningishidza in Sumerian and Akkadian.

Whether the aliens were of this world or not makes no difference.....it would behoove you to find out who the hell they were, and what the hell happened to them....so you can learn something....like what caused their demise or disappearance....

...lest their fate befalls you, and humans are destroyed or disappear.


Old 02-04-2013, 02:55 PM
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,861 posts, read 3,783,816 times
Reputation: 4594
And now for a bit of light entertainment....

Ricky Gervais on Noah's Ark - YouTube

(excuse the profanity at the beginning)
Old 02-05-2013, 04:21 AM
39,031 posts, read 10,819,276 times
Reputation: 5082
I think that it could bear repeating that, if the Flood is a residual myth based on an actual event such as the Black sea flooding following the melting of a frozen sea in Canada at the end of the last ice age, then it means that the flood was Not global, did Not wipe out creation apart from Noah and his floating zoo and the Biblical account is a Myth - and a derivative one, too - and so the Black sea stuff does not help Noah, the Bible or religious Faith In The Slightest.
Old 02-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,466,949 times
Reputation: 1480
I still haven't seen a decent reply by the apologists.
Old 02-06-2013, 09:27 PM
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,362,600 times
Reputation: 4885
a nice children's story...and funny when you see Gervais in action
Old 02-06-2013, 09:34 PM
Location: NW NJ & SE Oahu
4,555 posts, read 5,399,322 times
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Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
I still haven't seen a decent reply by the apologists.
What do you mean? I think they're hilarious!
Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 AM
39,031 posts, read 10,819,276 times
Reputation: 5082
After reading Mircea's long post, I might mention that the Finnaeus and Piri reis maps have been discussed and cannot be taken to be some kind of inexplicable knowledge of an ice -free Antartica before it was discovered. The Finnaeus map is a speculative southern continent made up of bits of the known coastline (including northern Australia) and the Piri reis map is a portolan - a map showing a known world with America in the left and a speculative land border all around. Other maps of the kind are known. The Admiral Reis map is missing a lot but the supposed bit of Antartica, which it doesn't really fit, is just part of this speculative bottom land border that was (wrongly) supposed to be attached to the southern tip of America.

I'm not quite sure what Mircea was arguing from Finnaeus,but I have seen this stuff raised before in the context of the Flood (or A Flood) and I thought I'd put the other side of the case.

As for Human evolution, I don't see that as on topic but, while I am aware of a case of sorts that Humans have abilities that can't convincingly be explained by unassisted evolution, questions about why we have two brains are simply questions to be answered, not objections that call human evolution into question. And the evidence that humans have evolved from an ape -ancestor through unassisted evolutionary pressures if piling up all the time and I'm tending to go with that case and these unanswered questions do not do anything to overturn that case.
Old 02-07-2013, 10:13 AM
Location: Near Nashville TN
7,201 posts, read 11,893,253 times
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Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
How can Christians even defend this story with a straight face? Seriously can somebody explain how all the Earth's creatures were stored on this ark for 40 days with everything taken care of. I want the sizes of the animals, all of the logistics of this and how it is accomplished. Why didn't God just re-create the animals / creatures again from scratch like he did in the beginning? Everything does not need another to reproduce. What about asexual animals?
The Ark story is so absurd that there are sects out there who no longer take it literally. Besides that, it was based on the even older story of The Epic of Gilgamesh. But the priests and pastors and Rabbi's NEVER mention that fact.

They were supposedly on that Ark for a lot longer than 40 days. The rain lasted 40 days as I recall. I may be a bit rusty as it's been some years since I read the bible cover-to-cover.
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