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Old 01-31-2013, 04:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Like having "God is a myth" messages on billboards and buses. Totally unnecessary and counter-productive.

What are we going to have next? Anti-UFO messages? Anti-Lochness Monster messages? It's silly and helps nothing.
How is "god is a myth" on a bus "dangerous or counterproductive?" If anything, it makes people question the stories they've been told and wonder if they are true... that's a GOOD thing, right? Right?!?!

Is it any different than a "God exists" billboard? Is that dangerous and counterproductive too? Why or why not?
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,825 posts, read 18,553,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post

And/or, they may have simply been pragmatic ... didn't the Soviets frown on religion and encourage atheism? Wasn't atheism the politically safe way to go?

.
I would class the above factors under the general heading of cultural instruction, the same as Christian values showing up in our cultural indoctrinations, whether the particular instruction/activity is religious or not. Ours is a society which recognizes the Christian and tolerates the atheists, the Soviets simply reversed that formula.

As for the percentage which reverted to religion once the soviet pressure was removed, well, my entire thesis here is that we are dealing with people who could just as easily be religious as not.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
A bigger issue I think is that there are some atheists (a vocal minority) that are outright anti-religion and are actively engaged in trying to eradicate religious belief and expression in society. This is something which I strongly disagree with. It is counter-productive and dangerous.
Agreed.

There is a wide divergence of thought and reason among nonbelievers just as there is between believers. Atheists aren't part of a "hive mind."

As BigCityDreamer stated, there is a vociferous minority of atheists who seem to have been turned off by religion for one reason or another and who really feel hostile towards religions.

Most atheists, in my opinion and experience, have arrived at their nonbelief simply through acquisition of knowledge and the use of logic.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:43 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,737,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Like having "God is a myth" messages on billboards and buses. Totally unnecessary and counter-productive.

What are we going to have next? Anti-UFO messages? Anti-Lochness Monster messages? It's silly and helps nothing.
BigCity Jesus loves you. So you would rather FSM messages? I WOULD. petition the Atheists to start only putting FSM messages on billboards and no atheist ones. Atheists should shut up and not be allowed to put their silly feel-good mantras on billboards. Its freedom OF religion not From its hardcore oppression of atheism and agnosticism.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mainelander View Post
What i mean is they are atheist not because they feel strongly in the concept and ideals but because it was a coin toss.
Nonsense. It is not a coin toss.

When a claim has no evidence at all to substantiate it, this does not mean that it is 50:50 and believing either way is a coin toss. You entirely misrepresent the situation here.

But it seems to be an easy mistake to make and many theists make it. Though I suspect many do it purposefully and wantonly.

They act like the fact there is no evidence for the existence of god but also none for the unfalsifiable negative claim of "no god" that it is therefore 50:50 and down to faith.

It simply does not work that way. If a claim is unsubstantiated nonsense then that in no way makes it a coin toss. Atheists are atheists because... despite the vast number of people claiming to subscribe to the idea there is a god.... none of them have managed to present even the first iota of a shred of argument, evidence, data or reasoning to lend even a modicum of credence to the claim.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:11 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,252,327 times
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[quote=BigCityDreamer;28033846]
Quote:
Like having "God is a myth" messages on billboards and buses. Totally unnecessary and counter-productive.

So are you saying that having religious messages on billboards and buses is necessary and productive?


Quote:
What are we going to have next? Anti-UFO messages? Anti-Lochness Monster messages? It's silly and helps nothing.
Oh, I feel confident that someone will come up with these type of messages and I agree that it is silly.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Do some people embrace life philosophies without first subjecting them to scrutiny?
thatsmy issue with many self styled atheists. They seem to be atheists arbitrarily and at some point in their lives were religious or will become religious with equal fervor.

The problems arises for me when they are the most dogged and vocal cheerleaders of their philosophy whatever it may be.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:45 AM
 
742 posts, read 1,078,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Nonsense. It is not a coin toss.

When a claim has no evidence at all to substantiate it, this does not mean that it is 50:50 and believing either way is a coin toss. You entirely misrepresent the situation here.
actually you are misrepresenting the issue. I didnt say ALL atheists I said many, i specifically identified a minority who acted like this. Please don't strawman me.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:47 AM
 
742 posts, read 1,078,706 times
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[quote=Arjay51;28042210]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post


So are you saying that having religious messages on billboards and buses is necessary and productive?
While i find such billboards repugnant, I dont feel the same sort of condescension from religious billboards as i do from atheist ones.

I know it is vvery easy to paint all religious folk as cultists seeking to control people, but many truly believe they are helping by recruiting you into the fold.

The feeling I get from vocal atheists is one of "you are an idiot if you don't agree with me".
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:46 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,278,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainelander View Post
actually you are misrepresenting the issue. I didnt say ALL atheists I said many, i specifically identified a minority who acted like this. Please don't strawman me.
I did not say "all atheists" either. So I am not sure what you think you are correcting me on here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mainelander View Post
The feeling I get from vocal atheists is one of "you are an idiot if you don't agree with me".
Notice however there is often a chasm of difference between the feeling that was intended to be conveyed by someone... and the feeling that was actually illicited in the mark... in this case you.

In other words: Just because it made you feel belittled or condescended against... either directly or vicariously on behalf of others... that does not mean it was the intention of the person or people in question.

Also if you think vocal atheists have more elements in their midst than vocal theists who are prone to going around with the "you are an idiot if you don't agree with me" attitude then I invite you merely to stick around these parts. There are _many_ of them.

We have more than one theist user by far (though we do have one in particular who makes a specialty point of it to the point that I have been asked by the mods on pain of ban never to speak on-forum to him again lest it set him off on another hate filled rant of invective which will give them more work to do.) who happily engage in telling you just how under-educated, ignorant, biased, evil and/or mentally deficient you are if you do not see things their way.
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