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Old 02-02-2013, 12:04 AM
 
455 posts, read 764,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The "already met my quota" is one possible interpretation. The pastor may have also meant that she was offended by the idea that a waitress should demand a higher percentage (18 over 10) than god asks as his piece of the action.

Or maybe she meant it both ways, they are equally stupid.
Agreed. The possibilities are endless. But the funny thing is that all those possibilities still drain into the same gutter.
If that woman can seriously expect to navigate life comfortably and without upset while thinking that the only recompense she would ever give to any legitimate service has to be less than she gives to "God", then I truly hope that she is not being hypocritical about her credit card interest rates, if she has them, or tax rates in general.. I mean, she should be up in arms about all these heathens stealing god's taxing thunder!
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:57 AM
 
1,825 posts, read 2,486,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soup Sandwich View Post
Agreed. The possibilities are endless. But the funny thing is that all those possibilities still drain into the same gutter.
If that woman can seriously expect to navigate life comfortably and without upset while thinking that the only recompense she would ever give to any legitimate service has to be less than she gives to "God", then I truly hope that she is not being hypocritical about her credit card interest rates, if she has them, or tax rates in general.. I mean, she should be up in arms about all these heathens stealing god's taxing thunder!
I'd normally agree with, but the 18% was ostensibly a "gratuity," which technically made it optional. Taxes and cc interest are not.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,210 posts, read 18,619,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmills View Post
I'd normally agree with, but the 18% was ostensibly a "gratuity," which technically made it optional. Taxes and cc interest are not.
Not in this particular case. The Applebee policy was that an automatic 18% gratuity would be added to any service for a party of eight or more, removing it as an option and converting it to an obligation.

I concur with the pastor in objecting to the idea of obligatory tips, if indeed that was the basis of her objection. If you are going to have mandatory tips, why bother calling it tips? Why not just raise the menu prices 18%, have a no tipping policy and pay the wait staff more? The entire idea of a tip is that it is the customer's reward discretion for satisfactory or unsatisfactory service. Appelbees removes that discretion with their 18% no matter what sort of service you got policy.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:04 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 2,486,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Not in this particular case. The Applebee policy was that an automatic 18% gratuity would be added to any service for a party of eight or more, removing it as an option and converting it to an obligation.

I concur with the pastor in objecting to the idea of obligatory tips, if indeed that was the basis of her objection. If you are going to have mandatory tips, why bother calling it tips? Why not just raise the menu prices 18%, have a no tipping policy and pay the wait staff more? The entire idea of a tip is that it is the customer's reward discretion for satisfactory or unsatisfactory service. Appelbees removes that discretion with their 18% no matter what sort of service you got policy.
I think we're in agreement, that's why I put "gratuity" in quotes and said that "technically" it is optional. Practically, it is just as you state. My point was that as long as it is being called a "gratuity," it was different from taxes and interest.

I wonder what would happen if a case such as this went to court. Could the owner successfully argue theft? I wonder if its been challenged before.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,210 posts, read 18,619,681 times
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dmills
Quote:
My point was that as long as it is being called a "gratuity," it was different from taxes and interest.
You can call a mule a racehorse, but it still isn't going to win the Kentucky Derby. Regardless of what Appelbees decides to call a mandatory charge, it is the obligatory nature which defines the actual transaction, not the name applied.

Quote:
I wonder what would happen if a case such as this went to court. Could the owner successfully argue theft? I wonder if its been challenged before.
That would hinge on proper notice. If Appelbees menu clearly states the policy regarding tips when eight or more are in a group, or if the customers are informed by the wait person at the time of their ordering, then once the customer orders anyway, the obligation has been accepted and a refusal to pay that portion of the bill is no different from a refusal to pay any other part.

If it was an ambush, as in no reasonable warning of this policy, then the customer is not legally obligated to pay because that traditional creature of the law, the average reasonable man, would have dined with the expectation of the standard restaurant arrangements...tip is optional and at the discretion of the customer.

To prevail, Appelbees would have to prove that the customer was aware of the policy. If the notice was there, but inadequate, such as it appears only in tiny print on the back of the menu, or on some sign no one normally would notice, then the customer would win.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:18 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,027,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Applebee



Applebees apologized to the reverend for violating her "right to privacy." I wonder about that, there is certainly no legal privacy protection extended toward a note that someone wrote and left in a public place for someone else to find. Once found, that note becomes the property of the finder and that finder is not restricted in its use. Applebees is creating this right to privacy doctrine on the spot and I wonder if it would have been extended to someone who stiffed the waitress and left behind a note of complaint about the tip policy, but who wasn't a pastor.

As for the policy itself, there I side with the reverend, the entire idea of a tip is for the customer to reward proper service. Make it mandatory and that concept is defeated, the waiter has no additional motivation to provide good service.

Oops...that was supposed to be "cheapskate" in the title...if a mod wanders by, please fix it. Thanks.
It clearly states on the menu that an 18% gratuity will automatically be added to the bill for parties of 8 or more. This cheapskate knew prior to ordering that it was included. Also, it was included on her bill with space for any additional tip for her to add if she wanted to. If she didn't think she had done anything wrong, why does she think her reputation was ruined?


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Old 02-02-2013, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Lake Nona
601 posts, read 375,431 times
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I don't make it to church all that often, but usually "pastors" are the ones that pass around the collection basket right? Has anyone actually seen a "pastor" contribute?
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:56 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,892 posts, read 3,983,242 times
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I would ALWAYS leave the Waitresses a Tip when I eat out.
The way I see it, they do more for me when I am in their restaurant than "god" ever does.
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:58 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 19,366,835 times
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My issue here, besides the ones you all have already pointed out, is that the restaurant industry is being dishonest with their patrons. Servers are paid "Restaurant Minimum Wage" which is half of regular minimum wage. The tips the server gets and the Restaurant Minimum Wage together are supposed to add up to (at least, if not more than) regular Minimum Wage. The industry treats it as their dirty little secret that the customer is actually paying part of their labor costs by, instead of pointing that fact out, they make the customer think that they are merely rewarding good service.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:01 PM
 
16,109 posts, read 17,935,404 times
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My son says that someone should tell that pastor that next time she eats out she should ask God to serve her. She can sit there and pray for something to eat instead of depending on the human waitresses to take her order and bring it to the table.
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