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Old 02-11-2013, 01:49 AM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,105,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I'm an educated...sorta... bod in reasonably affluent society in an technological age when amazing things are being discovered and I can talk daily with interesting bods like yourself.

I won the lottery! So did you. So did all of us who don't live in Somalia,and those who moan about how miserable and pointless it all is are sad, sad, people indeed.
Obviously you've reconciled yourself with existence, but I haven't. Sorry if I'm no longer interesting IYO. The folks in Mogadishu, once referred to as the mose dangerous city in the world...I still have no way of knowing how to attribute that to nature v nurture. If that dichotomy even makes sense, which it likely doesn't...nurture is somewhat a product of nature...but if you listen to EPIgenetics, then nature is also a result of nurture. So that Moderator cut: inappropriate languageis so inextricably intertwined that I doubt we can ever make sense of it. And think about what I just said...this pertains to you and I as well, for we too are epigenetically enslaved.

Last edited by june 7th; 02-11-2013 at 07:23 AM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,857 posts, read 3,781,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Obviously you've reconciled yourself with existence, but I haven't. Sorry if I'm no longer interesting IYO. The folks in Mogadishu, once referred to as the mose dangerous city in the world...I still have no way of knowing how to attribute that to nature v nurture. If that dichotomy even makes sense, which it likely doesn't...nurture is somewhat a product of nature...but if you listen to EPIgenetics, then nature is also a result of nurture. So that Moderator cut: inappropriate languageis so inextricably intertwined that I doubt we can ever make sense of it. And think about what I just said...this pertains to you and I as well, for we too are epigenetically enslaved.
That's a strange choice of word - enslaved. The wonderful thing about science and epigenetics is that we can better understand ourselves and learn from it. While you may be a product of the past, that does not mean you cannot change your future - or your present, so in this sense you are not enslaved. Who knows why we exist? It is one of those great remaining unanswered questions. But you are here and you have conscious thought and with that brings an appreciation of all that you have before you. You are clearly an intelligent person - you can change anything. One thing that is possible to change right away is to not view life as a negative, because there is no point to that. You can choose not to but that seems like such a waste. As long as you are on this earth, you might as well seize the day.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
9,845 posts, read 22,171,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
A recent [2012] WIN-Gallup...

http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/up...sm-25-7-12.pdf

...has confirmed the obvious: that many of the world's once-religious folks are abandoning their vigorously mandated Christian beliefs in favor of a more moderate, and in many cases, religion-free status.

Thank God, so to speak.

Global index of atheism from most atheistic to least. There are many more below the last one listed, but I wanted to at least include the US:

China 47% (... are atheists, therefore I must perforce proclaim them to be progressively more rational than the ones furthest below them!) To continue...

Japan 31
Czech Republic 30
France 29
Korea, Rep (South) 15
Germany 15
Netherlands 14
Austria 10
Iceland 10
Australia 10
Ireland 10
Canada 9
Spain 9
Switzerland 9
Hong Kong 9
Sweden 8
Belgium 8
Italy 8
Argentina 7
Russian Federation 6
Finland 6
South Sudan 6
Saudi Arabia 5
Moldova 5
United States 5

Of particular interest was Ireland, whose change from Catholic to atheist was a stunning 23% drop since 2005! Wow!

Brace yourself for such ongoing changes in other countries, since religion generally knows no political boundaries.
Wow didn't realize the US number was so low still...
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,736,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy View Post
We take out God, what reigns supreme? Materialism? Power? Wealth? Often, those three are associated with living life to the fullest.

Why would one voluntarily live a life of irrelevant poverty when their entire existance is equivelant to a speck of sand on a beach?

Most may be content or too cowardly to take the risks necessary to reach the top of the socio-economic food chain, but there are some that will take advantage of their circumstances, and rise to the top by any means possible.

Those that truly wish to take advtange of their atheist ideology may see the detriment caused by population growth, and once they acheive their desired status, take measures to eliminate the core of their suffering.

Next, is the dehumanization phase. What value are those who do not contribute much to society? If the technology is available to make it next to impossible for a rebelion to rise up against the ruling party, what makes you assume they wouldn't pass measures to curb population?

The value of life would decrease substantially because people would be perceived as being souless, and there is no threat of a judge in the next life that will punish you for your sinful acts. Sin won't even exist.

Ultimately, there will be no moral code that usurps man's laws, which means morality will be open to interpretation, which will depend on circumstances.

What makes anyone on here believe that they contribute enough to the point to where the ruling party will allow them to live?

There are grave consequences associated with an all atheist society that, unfortunately, are being overlooked.
Oh yes, Theists are the least materialistic, the least power-hungry, the most poorness-seeking volunteers. *i laugh.* What has always reigned supreme is Happiness, everyone seeks that... although they don't understand that happiness is a path, not a destination.

Yes, let's ask ourselves. Why do atheists, Jains, Buddhists, nihilists, and polytheists do good things? Why don't they do like their monotheists friends and do good things JUST FOR GOODNESS SAKE? ... oh wait, monotheists DON'T do things simply because they are good. They do it because they seek THE BEST MATERIAL for their "souls", They do it because they wish to ALIGN WITH THE GREATEST POWER, they do it because they want to acquire the BEST THINGS AND SECURITY.

who would have thought? The God of the bible has ordered genocide before... hold up, I hear him whispering something into my ear...

*rolls eyes for sarcasm*What value are those who DON'T contribute to God? surely they can be hurled into hell?

Theists have NEVER tried to curb population through oppression and slaughter and eugenics and castration and trickery upon their enemies during peace time, and spreading plagues.

God, on the other hand, has CLEARLY intervened in HUMAN laws and saved his son Jesus from dying by unjust Judeo-Roman law. No human laws can usurp God's morals, never have and never will.

So many slippery slopes that simply couldn't be gotten to if we had Theism! Especially POLYtheism, since we know the NEXT STEP after monotheism is Atheism!

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 02-15-2013 at 06:13 PM.. Reason: wrote "can't" by accident. since I meant to write sarcastically to show a clear point through that method.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:39 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,736,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
Actually, it is your own view that would be closer to calling me the origin of morality as a cog in society. I believe that the mind is the method for aquiring God's sense of morality, as you put it.
Awesome, then it seems we are all in the same footing and God might as well not exist when it comes to how we figure out morality.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:40 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,736,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
I would say that the killing of the innocent is always wrong, no matter what. As to your point on moral delimma, I suppose it would depend on your viewpoint as to what would be the lesser evil in an overpopulation scenario. A good, and thought provoking point you make. I would hope that before we reach a dangerous point in overpopulation we can find a better solution that would not result in moral atrocity.
Good, thanks, so you get my point.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:02 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 1,090,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Oh yes, Theists are the least materialistic, the least power-hungry, the most poorness-seeking volunteers. *i laugh.* What has always reigned supreme is Happiness, everyone seeks that... although they don't understand that happiness is a path, not a destination.

Yes, let's ask ourselves. Why do atheists, Jains, Buddhists, nihilists, and polytheists do good things? Why don't they do like their monotheists friends and do good things JUST FOR GOODNESS SAKE? ... oh wait, monotheists DON'T do things simply because they are good. They do it because they seek THE BEST MATERIAL for their "souls", They do it because they wish to ALIGN WITH THE GREATEST POWER, they do it because they want to acquire the BEST THINGS AND SECURITY.

who would have thought? The God of the bible has ordered genocide before... hold up, I hear him whispering something into my ear...

What value are those who DON'T contribute to God? surely they can't be hurled into hell?

Theists have NEVER tried to curb population through oppression and slaughter and eugenics and castration and trickery upon their enemies during peace time, and spreading plagues.

God, on the other hand, has CLEARLY intervened in HUMAN laws and saved his son Jesus from dying by unjust Judeo-Roman law. No human laws can usurp God's morals, never have and never will.

So many slippery slopes that simply couldn't be gotten to if we had Theism! Especially POLYtheism, since we know the NEXT STEP after monotheism is Atheism!
Let's say that you never worked a hard day in your life. Like, let's say your hands don't have any calluses, and like most Americans, you probably only spend a few hours a day "working."

Why do you assume that those who break their bodies for you should continue to be content with their place in life when they know that they only have a single life to live, and there are no ultimate consequences for what they do on earth.

They cease to exist when they die. Most would probably be too afraid to take the necessary risks to live life to the fullest, and rebell against the unjust, silver spooned, soft, part of society, but eventually, there will be a movement amongst them.

A man, wiser than you, and all of your friends, will rise out of the depths of laborious obscurity, and will rally his brethren against you.

Perhaps technology will prevent this from occuring by making it nigh impossible for a revolution to take place, but if it doesn't, the slaves of society will destroy your civilization and kill all that stand against them.

And when they rise to the top, the power will shift, and the cycle will continue until everyone is dead.

There is no salvation in atheism. There is only darkness and despair. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,736,927 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy View Post
Let's say that you never worked a hard day in your life. Like, let's say your hands don't have any calluses, and like most Americans, you probably only spend a few hours a day "working."

Why do you assume that those who break their bodies for you should continue to be content with their place in life when they know that they only have a single life to live, and there are no ultimate consequences for what they do on earth.

They cease to exist when they die. Most would probably be too afraid to take the necessary risks to live life to the fullest, and rebell against the unjust, silver spooned, soft, part of society, but eventually, there will be a movement amongst them.

A man, wiser than you, and all of your friends, will rise out of the depths of laborious obscurity, and will rally his brethren against you.

Perhaps technology will prevent this from occuring by making it nigh impossible for a revolution to take place, but if it doesn't, the slaves of society will destroy your civilization and kill all that stand against them.

And when they rise to the top, the power will shift, and the cycle will continue until everyone is dead.

There is no salvation in atheism. There is only darkness and despair. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.
good Atheists (or just those nonreligious) are just spoiled brats. bad atheists use religion to keep the poor dumb ones down. and poor/suffering people use religion to keep themselves good and happy.

Or maybe by your logic ALL GOOD PEOPLE are just spoiled, and all religious people are just suffering indigents.

I don't assume anything about those who break their bodies, if they desire communism they can take what little money I have... we all will suffer for it, as I will continue not to overwork my body, but only to do what I love and how I love doing what I'm good at in terms of work. If those who break their bodies want religion to keep them where they are, they can keep it. If they want to get to the top by doing something else, they can try it. Same is true if they were theist or not.
If they don't believe in ultimate consequences then they can settle for the ultimate death (which is what atheists seem to currently believe in). Consequences aren't going to simply cease to exist because everyone is nonreligious or polytheist.

You are imagining things... Atheist societies like the Jains, Buddhists, and Japanese have existed happily as long as their babies are not psychologically battered by the evil falsehood of the religionist's meaningless pessimism and refusal to accept death, and need to believe in their meaningless (for being uncreated and self-ruled) God.

It seems the salvation in atheism is NOT HAVING SLAVES nor oppressed/desperate people. looks like the atheists are headed in the right direction.

There is no light at the end of believing that Death is real only to those egotistical and lustful for meaningless unending life.

I highlighted something you wrote that seemed strange, as a cycle either continues or it stops, it can't continue while stopping or stop while continuing. Atheism is equivalent to theism... its all the same kind of people.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:21 PM
 
16,083 posts, read 17,876,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy View Post
Let's say that you never worked a hard day in your life. Like, let's say your hands don't have any calluses, and like most Americans, you probably only spend a few hours a day "working."

Why do you assume that those who break their bodies for you should continue to be content with their place in life when they know that they only have a single life to live, and there are no ultimate consequences for what they do on earth.
Why do you think atheists assume that anyone who breaks their bodies for others should be content with their place. Actually, that is what the Christian God would say they should do because they will, after all, be rewarded after they die.

Since atheists don't believe they will be punished *or* rewarded after death, we believe they should attempt to better their lot in life now. And, many of us, try to help them to do so by protesting injustices through the political system and by donating some of our own wealth to help them (not to be self-sacrificing, though, but to help them become better able to help themselves). See kiva.org as one example of atheists helping those who need help and who are attempting to pull themselves out of poverty.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,334,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Awesome, then it seems we are all in the same footing and God might as well not exist when it comes to how we figure out morality.
Not exactly. I think that there is a spiritual nature in the mind that is a receptor to a universal moral code woven into the fabric of the Universe that we may or may not subscribe to according to our free will. Is this what you were getting at?
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