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Old 02-14-2013, 04:28 PM
 
155 posts, read 418,202 times
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I find it very interesting that when discussing with a creationist how the world began, they always try to refute evolution by saying, "so what? Once upon a time, there was nothing, and then nothing exploded; creating everything?” Do they not realize that their faith in a god is basically the exact same thing? There was once nothing, and all of a sudden, there was a god who created everything? How can a god spontaneously appear out of nothing? It's just astonishing that in today’s day and age, creationists still use some of the weakest arguments out there to defend their story.

I am actually in a transition at the moment. I was brought up as a Pentecostal Christian, and lately, I have been reading a lot books and research with regards to evolution and the big bang theory. I just find that religion simply does not have the answers or evidence to keep me with it. I am a very curious person and I love finding answers about our pasts. I especially love science as well. Religion comes up short time and time again.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:27 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 5,421,033 times
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I am sure they do "realise it" but what they are engaged in is blatant conversation derailing.

Evolution has nothing to do with the origin or explanation for the universe. It also has nothing to do with the first rise of life or the first rise of a self replicating protein.

What they are doing on you is changing the subject. It is a cop out trick that, like you, I have seen innumerable creationists retreat behind. It is as blatant and transparent as derailing a conversation on the physics of ballistics by asking "Why does gun powder explode anyway?" in order to derail the conversation into one about chemistry.

But one does not need to know where flour comes from or how it is made in order to bake cake or discuss cooking. Ignorant or biased people will always try to change the subject to avoid their own weaknesses however and that is what these people are doing.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Space Coast
1,988 posts, read 4,724,397 times
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I was going to post about how it cracks me up that people who refute evolution don't even understand it well enough to realize that it has nothing to do with the beginning of the universe or even of life. But then I read the previous post and realized that Nozzferrahhtoo said pretty much the same thing but much more eloquently.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Aiken, South Carolina, US of A
1,773 posts, read 3,997,887 times
Reputation: 3603
Mid310,
I understand what you are going through with your transition.
I read everything I can get my hands on, and I love National Geographic
and Smithsonian magazines.
I also watch the science channel as much as I can, although alot of it goes
right over my head.
I had science in college, but it was so long ago, I must keep up with what is
going on and boy, it is awesome!
We have come so far in science it's mind boggling, especailly with the genome
research, but we have really just started, when you really think about it.
I don't discuss religion with anyone, basically because I don't think it is worth
discussing. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.
You really can't discuss or argue nonsense with someone. The answers they
will give you are brainwashed and don't answer your question at all.
I'll jsut keep trying to educate myself as much as I can, after all,
When we know better, we have to do better, right?
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:02 AM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,438 posts, read 2,245,378 times
Reputation: 4314
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiD310 View Post
I find it very interesting that when discussing with a creationist how the world began, they always try to refute evolution by saying, "so what? Once upon a time, there was nothing, and then nothing exploded; creating everything?” Do they not realize that their faith in a god is basically the exact same thing? There was once nothing, and all of a sudden, there was a god who created everything? How can a god spontaneously appear out of nothing? It's just astonishing that in today’s day and age, creationists still use some of the weakest arguments out there to defend their story.

I am actually in a transition at the moment. I was brought up as a Pentecostal Christian, and lately, I have been reading a lot books and research with regards to evolution and the big bang theory. I just find that religion simply does not have the answers or evidence to keep me with it. I am a very curious person and I love finding answers about our pasts. I especially love science as well. Religion comes up short time and time again.
What have you read so far, science-wise? If you're inclined to continue reading then I'd like to perhaps contribute to your continued reading

If you like actual answers about our past then I recommend The Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins to begin with...this is a man with rare ability to both command the science and communicate it oft-beautifully
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:21 AM
 
155 posts, read 418,202 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
What have you read so far, science-wise? If you're inclined to continue reading then I'd like to perhaps contribute to your continued reading

If you like actual answers about our past then I recommend The Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins to begin with...this is a man with rare ability to both command the science and communicate it oft-beautifully
Richard Dawkins has actually become one of my favorite authors. I have read the God Delusion, Greatest Show on Earth and the Selfish Gene. The Ancestor's Tale is next in line. I have also watched a number of debates; most recently Michael Shermer vs Kent Hovind. I just find the stories of religion are VERY hard to believe if you have any sort of intelligence.

If you have any other suggestions on great books to read, please share.

I never really put much thought into any of this in the past; however, since returning to school, I haven't been able to stop with the research. It's probably mostly due to my taking a science based program. I have always had a passion for science but was never able to pursue anything until now. Am I glad I did!!! And it is so liberating to be breaking away from the stranglehold of religion.

One of my favorite lines from Dawkins is, "Life is not something to be endured until eternal bliss or damnation. This is all you have, an inspiration to make the most of the time you have on this earth." Very true as you so often hear religious people saying, "Can't wait until God comes for his children."

A great challenge that I will be faced with however, is being secular in a religious family. It's becoming very hard to bite my tongue and not speak up when I am being bombarded with a fantasy from the bible.

Last edited by MiD310; 02-16-2013 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
7,817 posts, read 4,122,571 times
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If you are interested in the god v atheist debate and you are a fan of Dawkins I strongly recommend you watch this:
Richard Dawkins meets the Archbishop of Canterbury

A very reasoned debate from both sides:


Richard Dawkins & Rowan Williams Archbishop of Canterbury discuss human nature & ultimate origin - YouTube


Starts out very dry, but stick with it!
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
7,775 posts, read 6,679,358 times
Reputation: 6976
There is a website called thethinkingatheist.com. It is run by a guy named Seth Andrews who's background is much like yourself. You might want to check that out since he talks openly about his experience from being a sold out Christian to being an atheist.

I like Seth's corollary to Socrates famous saying "The unexamined life is not worth living (Socrates)..................and the unexamined faith is not worth having (Andrews)."
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