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Old 04-28-2018, 09:07 PM
 
39,023 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Atheism is definitely as meaningless as Theism, if though not as full of manipulative substance and destructive excusing.

The following very long (hour-long) video talks about an essay that was written about "the dangers" of the fall of religion in the West. The essay talked about the rise of atheism and non-religion and tried to spread slander against atheists, which is a common tactic of the hateful people (who are also enemies against each other).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huDF--PRevw
I'm not sure what you mean by 'meaningless'. Both organised religion and atheism have implications for the society we live in and that is surely the meaning. I agree that the blame -game is not helpful and a lot of what can be called atrocities of both religion and 'atheists regimes' can be put down to organisations with state power and war -making organisations. i do feel that more irreligion would mean less to fight about and more democracy might lead to less dictators, but the debate is always about which is right - theism or atheism, and claims about which does good and which does atrocities or the most of them is a red -herring.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:41 AM
 
Location: USA
3,427 posts, read 1,256,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
So as you all might have realized, I like atheists (the ones on here are usually smart) as much as I like theists. But I was thinking about the growth in atheism... and about how meaningless it is. What is atheism going to accomplish? Nothing. It is simply piggy backing on increased intelligence, etc, which are the actual good things. So the more the atheists deconvert the bad people in religion, the more bad people there will be in Atheism.

I think this is the atheist's grand mistake. I think some people have some natural inclinations, and that as atheists convert bad people with their arguments and growing power, they will invite more degradation of Enlightenment and Ethical values into their fold. Instead of focusing on the growth in criticism of the God question, atheists should be focusing on intelligence and critical thinking, etc, especially for their children (which they seem to often do, not wanted to "push" atheism into their children).

This is the problem I have with the atheist label, and why I prefer people to label themselves by things that matter a little bit more than whether or not deities exist, which is what the whole atheist/theist argument ultimately boils down to. The label of "Brights" denotes a certain "inquiry, visibility, and intelligence" and the label "Humanist" denotes a certain "goal, respect, and focus." The word "Agnostic" denotes a certain "understanding, limitation, and broader inquiry."

The first people to be labeled "atheist" were the ancient Christians, often called the Nazarenes. They (after they took over Rome), along with the Islamists in the Arab lands, destroyed Enlightenment/progressive values and plunged their civilizations into dark ages. The Atheists in Russia were no better, after shredding their constitution and focusing only on economic equality and national security, they denied Enlightenment values and freedom, plunging their societies into dark eras. All of these people accepted a form of authoritarian conservatism which wanted nothing to do with inquiry and counter-arguments. But these possible consequences of such a theist-centered focus are only one possible outcome of the mistake.

Another outcome of atheists' spreading of unmonitored atheism and their acceptance of inferior deconverts would likely be that the pious religious would point to the atheists and say "look at their degradation, we are better" and so have an incentive for the good people to turn to religion where it is organized and clean.

There could be no inferior converts in a strongly monitored Humanist or Bright movement. However, any organization might succumb to corruption, so there would still be work and inquiry that would need to be done. Still why would anyone want to spread disbelief in gods? Spread how you got there, not the short cut to it (accepting atheism).

Do any of you disagree that calling yourself an atheist is a mistake? Do any of you disagree that spreading atheism (without spreading actual good things) is meaningless EVEN if ending (current) theism is not?
The "growth in atheism" is really nothing more than a loss of belief in make believe. As people come more and more to recognize that the make believe they have been fed their entire lives was never anything but unrealistic nonsense, the rise of atheism is an inevitable result.

I call myself an atheist because the definition fits.
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:47 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,333,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Do you disagree that the more "bad" people call themselves Atheist, the less appealing atheism will be to good people ...
The number of bad people calling themselves Christians doesn't seem to have diminished the appeal of Christianity...at least in the USA.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:57 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,032 posts, read 934,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
I didn't blame atheism for what atheist states did, my exact quote is;
"Stalin , as well as Mao are what occurs in the absence of God."
Except you believe Stalin and Mao occurred AND your god exists.

And the fact that religious dictators also exists thoroughly destroys the argument that Stalin and Mao were products of atheism. So once again you ignore the fact that correlation does not always mean causation.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:58 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,032 posts, read 934,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
What I did see was 50% alcoholism among men. Cheap vodka, no moral compass, no work, no purpose.
From whence cometh evil?
Have you read the Russian classics? They had those problem BEFORE communism as well.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: USA
3,427 posts, read 1,256,486 times
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Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Except you believe Stalin and Mao occurred AND your god exists.

And the fact that religious dictators also exists thoroughly destroys the argument that Stalin and Mao were products of atheism. So once again you ignore the fact that correlation does not always mean causation.
Does the fact that Hitler was a Roman Catholic taint all Roman Catholics?

As an atheist the only connection I have with Stalin and Mao is a lack of belief in make believe.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:08 AM
Status: "Scarface IS fiction!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Germany
5,032 posts, read 934,358 times
Reputation: 713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Does the fact that Hitler was a Roman Catholic taint all Roman Catholics?
No, just as Stalin being atheist does not taint atheism. Which was the point I was trying to put across. Did my clumsy English fail in this?

And from my research, Hitler was only raised RC, he later came to reject it. His references to 'the church' where often in passages attacking Catholicism. And 'Christianity' was used to refer to Pauline Christianity. Hitler appeared to follow his own version of creationist Christianity.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:43 AM
 
Location: USA
3,427 posts, read 1,256,486 times
Reputation: 1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
No, just as Stalin being atheist does not taint atheism. Which was the point I was trying to put across. Did my clumsy English fail in this?

And from my research, Hitler was only raised RC, he later came to reject it. His references to 'the church' where often in passages attacking Catholicism. And 'Christianity' was used to refer to Pauline Christianity. Hitler appeared to follow his own version of creationist Christianity.
Hitler seemed to have his own personal made up version of reality, this is true. But it was based on his Catholic upbringing, and his acceptance of the Christian belief in God and the Bible. Adam and Eve were pure Aryans, for example, and all other non Aryan races were impure forms of true (Aryan) humans. Hitler also subscribed to Germanic folklore.
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