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Old 02-17-2013, 07:57 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 1,090,753 times
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In order to fufill the prophecy, there has to be a fall out of Christianity. While I cannot prove anything, judging by the words that are written in the Bible said to be the words of Christ, I believe much of his message has been retained.

It requires discpline, empathy, respect, humbleness, and kindness, among other desirable traits, to mimic his actions and lifestyle.

Most people don't want to follow the words of Christ because they are difficult and "archaic." It is a changing society where dogs are allowed to have sex with people and it is acceptable, and money and status are more saught after than anything, with the exception of artifically enhancing yourself with surgical operations, so that you may appear younger.

On second thought, maybe this the way society has always been, but in my heart, I know it's wrong. When I see a child, born with a partial hand, with a mother that has no business having a child, I know that what people are envious of and what we desire is wrong. In fact, it is evil.

Mircea, you've pointed out multiple times about how the United States foreign policy allows us to live in such wealth and self gratification, through murder, coercion, prevention, and destruction.

Granted, some people may be completely oblivious to this, but many are not, and simply choose to ignore this. The justify it by saying they give a portion of their wealth to the poor. As you know, there is a story in Gospel about a woman who gives everything she has, while the Pharisees give what they do without. These people are no different than the Pharisees. I am no different than the Pharisees, but I know what the standard is, and in my heart, I know what's right.

And at the end of the day, if I have to pay for my trangressions, then I am a due a debt, and I understand that because nothing in life is free. Without God, there is a free pass. It's a debt free world. You can do as you wish, and if things get too hot, you can simply take your life, and cease to exist.

How is that just? How does that justify the child with half a hand that will have to endure a humilating childhood, and likely be hindered in the future due to her disability. In my town, there is a man from Africa that works three jobs and lives in a single room, with only the bare necessities. He sends all but what he needs to eat and pay rent and utilities, to the orphanage he came from in Africa. His jobs are labor oriented, non stop. If the story is true, is it just for him to not be rewarded for how he lived his life? Instead of a debt, it seems as if he acquired a surplus.

I've worked both outside and in the office. I can fully attest that my job outside was not only more mentally demanding than my monotonous office job, but far more physically demanding. Rarely, did I get an opportunity for a break and often, I was working for longer hours. In the office, you have to go find work to do.

Knowing what I know, and seeing what I see, reality shows, and people acting life buffoons, how would you expect people that also know the truth about white collar society, to be content in their jobs, slaving away, when there is nothing for them on the other side?

Nothing.

That's bleak Mircea. Even you. I don't understand you. You say you make less than $15,000 but you're smarter and more knowledgeable than every poster on city data put together. In all reality, you should be the damn President. Not only that, but you're a worker. And you're a veteran with combat experience. You're a real G.

So how are you content? I don't get it. What is your plan? I mean, this is it? I cannot except this. No way. There has to be something else out there. No way can soft handed kids that buy a McMansion as their first house and never worked a real day of work in their life or have any idea what the real world is like, be the kings of the damn Universe.

I'd rather die in ignorance than subcribe to such a bleak reality.

Last edited by Del Boy; 02-17-2013 at 08:11 PM..
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,884,444 times
Reputation: 7441
I only have two things to say: One, the sky isn't blue, it only appears blue. Sometimes it appears Maroon as well. Science - Bill Nye the Science Guy


Two, Atheism isn't important to me, nor who becomes an atheist, it's only represented as a thread topic so I converse about it. Theists place importance on it because it defies what they obey,IMO. Being questionable about my atheism doesn't further your beliefs, just makes you look insecure in them. Why not discuss what you believe in instead? Why would a theist care if I'm an atheist, or if I talk about being atheist to others? We also talk about other things if you haven't noticed. If anyone decides to be an atheist I have nothing to do with it. If some atheists get together and form a group of people brought together to talk about why they are atheist, who cares?

..............I guess I said more than two things. lol See, some of us lack intelligence as well. And that's ok!

I have atheism in common on here, but, on other threads I've had disagreements with fellow atheists because we only share our non belief, that's it. We differ as much as theists.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,362,600 times
Reputation: 4885
I'll agree with that poppyseed,
I'm not here to prove anything or to argue. I don't believe in anything biblical and deity-like but if others want to believe, so be it! I have my own life to life and there's no second chance so I do what I can to have a decent life offline. I don't go round talking religion or lack of it in the real world. Every person is different yet the same in many ways. We're all just wanting to be happy in the end. All the preaching and trying to prove things is a huge waste of time from a deist side as well as atheist side...
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,368,316 times
Reputation: 3735
Default I've come to observe both sides now, and know of what I speak...

I have skipped most all the posts aside from the first few. By then, the flavor of this predictable thread was evident. I disagree with the tenets of the OP, since he assumes that atheism leaves one empty and without purpose. As well, the post above by Del Boy further promotes this unwarranted and bleak conclusion.

How far from the truth can one assumptive dedicated Christian be, in endless and empty pursuit of self-gratification and false egotism? The arrogance here is palpable and productive of a rather odd odor! I think perhaps it's jealousy in full bloom?

Atheists are, by and large (and very well documented btw...), past one-time unknowingly empty-headed Christians who have taken the expensive and thorough time to carefully examine their once-thoughtless devotion, their blind faith determinations and non-critical thinking. But when these realizations are finally complete, it's like someone opening a huge stage door to allow in the full light of reason and truth. Initially startling, it's also very gratifying to see, finally, the true light and reason that so clearly surrounds us.

So to then insist, in a display of vast arrogance and hostile bitterness, that atheism is some horrid and empty existence is, well, purely pathological. Such an obviously dangerous and damaging psychological disease state should be treated ASAP! But the only successful and lasting treatment is to carefully review what the essentially evil Church and it's organized punitive administration have, over the centuries, promoted an unthinking adherence to obvious lies and falsehoods. Or else.

That sad position is very well demonstrated by our ever-so-arrogant Christian posters here, with their truly one-sided inexperience. Truly, I wonder: how can they honestly comment on the lifestyles, contentment and spirituality of mature and typically high IQ, intelligent and particularly well-educated atheists here when their own experience is sorely lacking in the atheist paradigm?

So... a reasonable person wonders exactly what they are desperately trying to accomplish by their silly commentary. To convert us by claiming just how meaningless our lives must be, and thereby induce some imagined fear and jealousy, and a need to be a Christian once again? How sadly funny! That's like asking a cured heroin addict to return to the "glories" of their prior addictions.

"Here! Try it again! I'm sure you've missed it!"

How to achieve this sadly errant goal, pray tell? By chanting their empty and unilateral but errant determinations? By re-muttering the idiotic claims made on crazy Christian websites that provide empty, meaningless and biased assertions of our supposed personal non-Christian misery?

How blitheringly inane this is. Forget it guys. Unlike the vast majority of you folks, we supposedly depressed and morally stifled atheists have carefully seen and examined both sides, and thereby came to a far deeper understanding of the invalidity of the old Christian myths. As a result of our personal explorations, absent the punishment-oriented ":corrections: of some agent of the church, we felt so much more fulfilled, educated and rational that we simply could not, in all truth to ourselves, return to the supposed glory of your sullied lifestyle, which is in fact the truly empty and irrational one.

So... enjoy your imagined Christian superiority. Within that creative fairy tale lies your only (but certainly imaginary) superiority. It's as spiritually empty as a goat-fart in the wind, and equally as odorous.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,820 posts, read 6,362,600 times
Reputation: 4885
I did once sit through an afternoon where a born again was telling me all about the bible and what a waste my life was without jesus and all them saints in it. So I've heard it all before..I wasted enough time listening to it throught my life so far. I did try both sides and checked other religions and found none were right and true. They're all based on how many people you can fool all the time. Religious folks are definitly not superior.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:01 AM
 
652 posts, read 604,132 times
Reputation: 305
I think everything you said was clap trap. Subterfuge. I can be an Atheist but its impossible to prove my belief. Just as its impossible to prove your belief in some god. Agnostic is the only thing that one can be that you don't have to prove and is the real state of knowing. We none of us know. I can't know from proof that John Edwards does not talk to the dead, but I highly doubt it. I can't know that your god of the bible or Islam or the flying spaghetti monster does not exist without being able to turn over every rock in the universe to check. But an Agnostic who says I doubt that god exists but I don't know, how can you argue with that? Its just the way it is.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,784 posts, read 19,886,317 times
Reputation: 23202
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Being questionable about my atheism doesn't further your beliefs, just makes you look insecure in them. Why not discuss what you believe in instead? Why would a theist care if I'm an atheist, or if I talk about being atheist to others? We also talk about other things if you haven't noticed. If anyone decides to be an atheist I have nothing to do with it. If some atheists get together and form a group of people brought together to talk about why they are atheist, who cares?
.

??
You are an atheist but come out with this?
In order not to furthur misunderstanding among our reading theists, I hope you will admit that this was just a careless bit of writing.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,112,066 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
If anyone decides to be an atheist I have nothing to do with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
??
You are an atheist but come out with this?
In order not to furthur misunderstanding among our reading theists, I hope you will admit that this was just a careless bit of writing.
Why does Poppy's statement see questionable to you?

I think some people have believed in gods and eventually found that belief does not suit them, so they decide they are really Atheists.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,861 posts, read 3,782,423 times
Reputation: 4594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy View Post
In order to fufill the prophecy, there has to be a fall out of Christianity. While I cannot prove anything, judging by the words that are written in the Bible said to be the words of Christ, I believe much of his message has been retained.

It requires discpline, empathy, respect, humbleness, and kindness, among other desirable traits, to mimic his actions and lifestyle.

Most people don't want to follow the words of Christ because they are difficult and "archaic." It is a changing society where dogs are allowed to have sex with people and it is acceptable, and money and status are more saught after than anything, with the exception of artifically enhancing yourself with surgical operations, so that you may appear younger.

On second thought, maybe this the way society has always been, but in my heart, I know it's wrong. When I see a child, born with a partial hand, with a mother that has no business having a child, I know that what people are envious of and what we desire is wrong. In fact, it is evil.

Mircea, you've pointed out multiple times about how the United States foreign policy allows us to live in such wealth and self gratification, through murder, coercion, prevention, and destruction.

Granted, some people may be completely oblivious to this, but many are not, and simply choose to ignore this. The justify it by saying they give a portion of their wealth to the poor. As you know, there is a story in Gospel about a woman who gives everything she has, while the Pharisees give what they do without. These people are no different than the Pharisees. I am no different than the Pharisees, but I know what the standard is, and in my heart, I know what's right.

And at the end of the day, if I have to pay for my trangressions, then I am a due a debt, and I understand that because nothing in life is free. Without God, there is a free pass. It's a debt free world. You can do as you wish, and if things get too hot, you can simply take your life, and cease to exist.

How is that just? How does that justify the child with half a hand that will have to endure a humilating childhood, and likely be hindered in the future due to her disability. In my town, there is a man from Africa that works three jobs and lives in a single room, with only the bare necessities. He sends all but what he needs to eat and pay rent and utilities, to the orphanage he came from in Africa. His jobs are labor oriented, non stop. If the story is true, is it just for him to not be rewarded for how he lived his life? Instead of a debt, it seems as if he acquired a surplus.

I've worked both outside and in the office. I can fully attest that my job outside was not only more mentally demanding than my monotonous office job, but far more physically demanding. Rarely, did I get an opportunity for a break and often, I was working for longer hours. In the office, you have to go find work to do.

Knowing what I know, and seeing what I see, reality shows, and people acting life buffoons, how would you expect people that also know the truth about white collar society, to be content in their jobs, slaving away, when there is nothing for them on the other side?

Nothing.

That's bleak Mircea. Even you. I don't understand you. You say you make less than $15,000 but you're smarter and more knowledgeable than every poster on city data put together. In all reality, you should be the damn President. Not only that, but you're a worker. And you're a veteran with combat experience. You're a real G.

So how are you content? I don't get it. What is your plan? I mean, this is it? I cannot except this. No way. There has to be something else out there. No way can soft handed kids that buy a McMansion as their first house and never worked a real day of work in their life or have any idea what the real world is like, be the kings of the damn Universe.

I'd rather die in ignorance than subcribe to such a bleak reality.
Given the context of the thread, most of the post seems to be suggesting that atheists have no standards at all. Do you think that atheists can have no discipline, empathy, respect, humbleness, or kindness if they don't follow Jesus?
You seem to be suggesting that atheists give birth to disabled children? Don't Christians have disabled children?
You say you can't possibly understand how Mircea can be content on $15,000 per year. This after giving us a lecture that you are exactly the same as us because you don't give every cent of your earnings to the poor. Ahh but you are different because at least you acknowledge it??
Is all this supposed to be a Christian outlook on life? Well you can keep it. This is all I loath about religion. Judging other people you don't even know, or blaming unfortunate children.

Whatever happened to 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'? or 'Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven'. It would be nice if Christians actually followed some of their own teachings.


Have you ever thought about it like this? Lets say it turns out I am wrong and you are right. Lets imagine there really is a god and we are both put before him on judgement day.

I know I have lived a good life. I am respectful and kind to other people. I have worked hard all my life. I have raised three fantastic children who I know will be tolerant people and respectful of others regardless of their beliefs, religion, outlook or way of life. Because I don't believe in god I think we should live our lives for today and spend every minute of it bettering ourselves and making the most of it. It may be the only chance we get at this.

Meanwhile Christians are intolerant and do judge others. Christians judge little children assuming the default position is that they must be sinful before they have even taken a step. They judge homosexuality because it does not conform to their idea of how people should be. They judge atheists for being amoral when they have no clue about that persons moral code.

If it turns out I am wrong and there is a god, do you think he is going to send me to hell simply because I spent my life not believing he exists? Or will he look at my life and see I have made the best of it?

If it turns out I am right and there is no god then at least I will not have wasted my life worrying about it.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
4,444 posts, read 4,606,706 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy View Post
In order to fufill the prophecy, there has to be a fall out of Christianity. While I cannot prove anything, judging by the words that are written in the Bible said to be the words of Christ, I believe much of his message has been retained.

It requires discpline, empathy, respect, humbleness, and kindness, among other desirable traits, to mimic his actions and lifestyle.

Most people don't want to follow the words of Christ because they are difficult and "archaic." It is a changing society where dogs are allowed to have sex with people and it is acceptable, and money and status are more saught after than anything, with the exception of artifically enhancing yourself with surgical operations, so that you may appear younger.

On second thought, maybe this the way society has always been, but in my heart, I know it's wrong. When I see a child, born with a partial hand, with a mother that has no business having a child, I know that what people are envious of and what we desire is wrong. In fact, it is evil.

Mircea, you've pointed out multiple times about how the United States foreign policy allows us to live in such wealth and self gratification, through murder, coercion, prevention, and destruction.

Granted, some people may be completely oblivious to this, but many are not, and simply choose to ignore this. The justify it by saying they give a portion of their wealth to the poor. As you know, there is a story in Gospel about a woman who gives everything she has, while the Pharisees give what they do without. These people are no different than the Pharisees. I am no different than the Pharisees, but I know what the standard is, and in my heart, I know what's right.

And at the end of the day, if I have to pay for my trangressions, then I am a due a debt, and I understand that because nothing in life is free. Without God, there is a free pass. It's a debt free world. You can do as you wish, and if things get too hot, you can simply take your life, and cease to exist.

How is that just? How does that justify the child with half a hand that will have to endure a humilating childhood, and likely be hindered in the future due to her disability. In my town, there is a man from Africa that works three jobs and lives in a single room, with only the bare necessities. He sends all but what he needs to eat and pay rent and utilities, to the orphanage he came from in Africa. His jobs are labor oriented, non stop. If the story is true, is it just for him to not be rewarded for how he lived his life? Instead of a debt, it seems as if he acquired a surplus.

I've worked both outside and in the office. I can fully attest that my job outside was not only more mentally demanding than my monotonous office job, but far more physically demanding. Rarely, did I get an opportunity for a break and often, I was working for longer hours. In the office, you have to go find work to do.

Knowing what I know, and seeing what I see, reality shows, and people acting life buffoons, how would you expect people that also know the truth about white collar society, to be content in their jobs, slaving away, when there is nothing for them on the other side?

Nothing.

That's bleak Mircea. Even you. I don't understand you. You say you make less than $15,000 but you're smarter and more knowledgeable than every poster on city data put together. In all reality, you should be the damn President. Not only that, but you're a worker. And you're a veteran with combat experience. You're a real G.

So how are you content? I don't get it. What is your plan? I mean, this is it? I cannot except this. No way. There has to be something else out there. No way can soft handed kids that buy a McMansion as their first house and never worked a real day of work in their life or have any idea what the real world is like, be the kings of the damn Universe.

I'd rather die in ignorance than subcribe to such a bleak reality.
And I'd rather know the truth than to die in ignorance...lol.

Seriously, though, what makes you think Mircea or any other atheist out there isn't content with their belief, or lack thereof? To me, believing in the idea of a few "saved souls" going to heaven while the majority of the world is forced to spend eternity in hell is the bleakest belief system there is. I'm certainly a happier person knowing that isn't the case, as no loving god would condemn someone to eternal suffering just because they didn't believe, or not being exposed to the words of the New Testament to begin with. And as far as "heaven" goes, that's just as bad as "hell", as I'd be bored to tears singing hymns on a cloud after the first hour or two, imagine doing that for million, billion, a googol (10 raised to the 100th power) years. Good gosh, that'd drive a person insane if you think about it too much...lol.

As for me, I just focus on what I can touch, feel and see, and I make the best of what I have, in this life. I do like to think that I'll be reincarnated in a future life, but there's no way of knowing for sure, until I'm dead, and when that happens, it doesn't matter - it really doesn't. Dead is dead...lol. As for the notion of "God", I've always thought it was the sum of all knowledge in the Universe - if it was possible for a person or some other entity to know everything there is about the universe, then that person would be "God." But that's just what I figured out when I was 7, to know everything is to be God, but that's not a belief system, just a way of defining what a possible "God" might actually be. Furthermore, this way of thinking illustrates how little we actually know compared to what there is to be known about the Universe - we humans are just babies, just barely starting out in the grand scheme of things.

So, in the light of what I don't know, I like to consider myself agnostic, as I lack the knowledge to know the true state of the universe and how it really works. In other words, I'm open-minded. I also beleive that morality is a human invention and therefore relative, which is why I have a hard time with getting along with people who believe in moral absolutism, like my dad. But my mom and her brother and I think alike in this regard, so that's good, for me anyhow.

I think the key thing is to respect other people's belief systems and not to try and impose your belief system on others. If we all did that, this world would be a MUCH better place, IMO.
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