Agnostic couple Vs. Her Religous Family... (believe, reject, Christ, choices)

[AMACC24]

I grew up in the Southern Baptist church. Most traditionally THE church on every corner, of every street in every town, in every state within the Bible Belt. Besides of course and often directly across from The Catholic Church. (Heaven forbid)

After accidentally joining a cult at 18 , (and yes I say "accidently" because no one willfully joins a cult) and meeting my dearly avoided ex husband, who was a pastor, (hereafter known as Pastor N) and enduring many years of emotion, physical, spiritual, psychological and sexual abuse and manipulation I have since become an atheist. (Daunt daunt dauuuuu)!!!

My family, bless their little passive aggressive, willfully blind souls are for the most part none the wiser. Of course when someone ****************** up another persons life it's not like that individual goes screaming about their experience from the roof tops. Fortunately, for me I did not end up dead, in my bathtub at my own hands. Instead, I spent many years in therapy, read a crap ton of books which I have only managed to scrape the surface of my obsessive rabbit trail to finally end up happy, fairly balanced in the way of normalcy and able to contribute to society.

My story does not end there. Wouldn't that be *********! Haha!!!

I am the third generation in my family to seperate itself from its predecessor's church beginning with the Quaker church. Except in my case I have left the church all together. Finite. Done. Free....

My grandfather was raised in the "Friends Church" and left it to join the war. (WWII that is) He didn't believe he could fight combat, but instead contributed as a cook and a medic. My mother then left his church the Independent Baptist, a very legalistic yet common denomination in the Northern part of the country. And I, continually, as a teen, left the Baptist altogether for a non-denominational sect. After living in that life and in a church that answers to no one but THE HEAD of the church himself I cut myself off. I picked up, left my husband of 7 years, deleted all social media and hid.

That decision saved my life.

I fled to another state where I hunkered down to lick my wounds. (I had a lot of licking to do.) But I made a decision when I left Pastor N. that life was worth living, and this existence was the one thing I knew for sure was real. In that decision, it dawned on me that IF this was my one and only chance at life then why ********* am I wasting it on a such a douche bag and people I hate. I should be seizing life by the shoulders and making **************. By that, I mean soak up everything and anything I could. For me, that meant recovery, first and foremost.

So that's what I did. I read, I watched, I listened to experts and authorities on life and love and purpose.

My conclusion...? God of my mothers doctrine does NOT exist.

The physical reaction to this revelation triggered a metamorphosis. And It hurt! I had to let go of a lot of mentalities that had held me back a quarter of a century. But I was determined. I was NOT willing to walk away from this life unsatisfied. "I will be healthy, I will be happy, I will be whole, and I will matter. To someone, somehow. Without, the manipulation and propganda religion rules society by". I repeated to myself.

In all my fight and glory of warrioring through I am NOT, however, "out of the closest" in that my family has no idea who or what I am. And if I'd like to be a self-convicted, indirect murderer I would have told my dear, elderly parents years ago.

"Mom, Dad, I don't believe God the of the Bible exists".

Thump!

Que the ER.

My unwillingness to include my family into my metaphorphsis stems from the simple fact that I think it would be a complete, and utter waste of time which will only cause me more pain and hardship than necessary. I know, I exude faith in humanity and it's ability to adapt! Ha!

The simple fact is that no matter how I say it, or what I say or the fact that it shouldn't be a surprise, considering my family history, it would be a royal waste of time to tell them the truth. My family will never be able to convince me (now solid in certain beliefs) that Christianity isn't ******************** meant to soothe our conscious mind of the unanswerable questions while simultaneously used to control the masses.

Thus, I have managed a subterfuge. Instead of dropping the A bomb on my enriched familiare I have finely honed a strategy to indirectly converse with them in a way that challenges their beliefs and provokes unauthorized thought without diverging my own beliefs.

WARNING: This is an extremely difficult and often maddening and sometimes unsuccessful approach!!!

I have not mastered this technique, but it is a delicate balance in which I have spent a lot of energy maintaining. Why? Because it's the only way I can live with myself and them. Sure, it's *****************. I have my careening, fist-clenching, eye rolling moments. (Usually with more extended family) But it works for me. And believe it or not my relationships have actually improved over the last few years.

All this being said, my darling "cherry pop tart" (to quote TBBT) and agnostic man, who unlike myself wasn't raised religious, has no reference point for the constant fear and threat of hell I went through as child. As most people in my world do for any sin no matter how slight. Nor does he understand the platform in which each member is held on trial and arbitration for their actions; upheld for the whole community to sentence and execute them almost daily.

So when he walks in with a humored, "oh you little nutty religious zealots" attitude and drops ******** and ********* it doesn't exactly bode well for my delicate little illusion of sidelined Christianity.

The question: How do I make my angostic boyfriend understand what it was like to grow up in a religiously controlling, hell fire and brimstone world and take it seriously.??!!

Understand, It's so foreign to the man, he doesn't even think its real. He can't understand that it is even a way of life for people. (It's especially bad in the south.) I have spent hours researching anything I could to help him grasp a glimpse of this world. He thinks because he's knows of its existence he can quantify its rulebook and because it's not based on logic or sanity (at least in his mind) it is then rendered mute. In other words, everyone else just has to move over to his humored indifference and accept him with tolerance.

Tolerance...THE word that is not in the Christian dictionary except when describing corrupted members outcast from the body.

Thus, my conundrum.

Thoughts, queries, exaltations?

[Matt Marcinkiewicz]

Well, this post reads nice and manic. I can appreciate that

I googled TBBT, and was surprised to see "The Big Bang Theory" return as the automatic Wikipedia-embedded result. I thought there'd at least be multiple returns, but the results were unanimous. Guess that abbreviation is just standard notation these days, heh.

As for your question, if he's as removed from the world of your upbringing as you say, then I'm not sure what you could do to impress upon him the reality of the conditions of your past other than to encourage him to infiltrate a Southern Baptist congregation for a little while as a way of increasing his understanding of your background (which may or may not be geographically feasible, depending on whether you still live in the south...I suppose the closest available approximation could suffice). Seeing as I doubt he'd be willing to do that, I'm not sure he'll ever be able to at all relate, given that it appears he's entirely dismissive of the religious, which tends to significantly reduce if not outright destroy empathy. It sounds like he's basically scoffing at whatever accounts you're presenting to him, and while religion itself certainly deserves such a reaction, the people who remain caught in its clutches do not necessarily deserve the same, IMO. It wasn't their fault that they were indoctrinated, in all likelihood as a small defenseless child.

Ex-Catholic speaking here, for the record, so I have experience with both sides of the fence of religiosity.

[cupper3]

Well, AMMAC24, I can emphasize with you.

I was actually brought up atheist, or at least agnostic, never was baptisted, but went to a Catholic school because that was all that was available in the town we moved to when I was 10 (in Canada, the Catholics have a constitutional right to have publicly funded schools, they are not private).

Go forward decades. My second wife, now my ex, came from a Seven Day Adventist background and was active in the church most of her life. She lapsed when we met, and didn't return to it until after our first year of marriage, so I had no idea what whack jobs the SDA is. It makes the Southern Baptists look normal (I'll get more into that later). To make a long story short, she started taking "Christian Counselling" courses through the SDA church. Part of that was so she could practice exorcisms on mentally ill homeless people to "drive the devil out of them and show them the way to christ". She believed she saw demons every time she did her "exorcisms".

Needless to say, I could not be involved with that sort of woo woo wackiness, and we divorced amicably about a year later. No matter stunning she looked and how good the sex was between us, it could not and did not make up for the depravity of her beliefs.

Move forward another decade.

I am currently involved with a wonderful woman who grew up in Alabama under the Southern Baptist regime. Her father, mother, sisters all were devout. She couldn't stand the hypocrisy, including being sexually molested by some of the "good outstanding church going men". As soon as she started college, she stopped going to church, and became a pariah in her family. Her brother in law is a SB pastor. He tried quoting chapter and verse to me, and due to my university studies in comparative religion, I could give as good or better than he gave. He decided perhaps religion was not a great subject for us to talk about, and we would talk about gardening and guns.

My girlfriend still suffers from the chit she went through when she was at home. To this day, her mother still disses her for not "believing and accepting christ as your lord and savior".

So, I understand your issue, although from somewhat a different perspective. I currently live in the buckle of a bible belt, with a "creation science" museum 4 blocks away. The religious stuff is pervasive.

Advice for your boy friend?

If he has never really lived and been exposed to that type of stuff, the advice to have him go for a month of Sundays to a Southern Baptist church will give him at least an idea of what whacko stuff gets babbled and believed each sermon. Tell him Ray Stevens paraody song, "The Mississippi Squirrel Revival" is somewhat true... the worst part is, Pascagoula was very near were my girl friend grew up (here grandparents farmed near there).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K16fG1sDagU

[mordant]

Originally Posted by AMACC24

Thoughts, queries, exaltations?

Well first off, if the moderators haven't gotten to you already with an infraction, let me warn you that sprinkling your posts with anything that the forum turns into asterisks is infractable profanity. However tame and matter of fact and real you or I may regard it, moderation about that here is ... let me search for the right word because criticizing moderators is also ... firmly discouraged. So you are going to have to find less colorful metaphors. I speak as one who got dinged a couple of times early on and very nearly shook the dust of this place off my feet. I'm mostly glad I didn't.

At any rate ... I'd venture to say that most of us deconverts here fall into two camps. Some of us are "out" to our families, however gradually or suddenly that may have happened, and some have managed to avoid the issue. I don't think many here actively simulate participation in church or other religious activities though. That's of course your decision to make, but your people sound extreme and toxic enough that I can't think of a rationalization for doing that, that I could buy into. Because play-acting like that costs you something too, and what are you getting in return for it? "Acceptance" and "love" based on not-so-subtle preconditions.

On the other hand you actually sound afraid of your family and what they might do to harm / harass you. Is it really that extreme? Do you fear for your safety or your life? Then why are you hanging around so that it's even a question that your BF has to understand and support the masquerade?

To the question of how he can understand, I don't know. My S.O. is a lifelong unbeliever / non-religious person and that whole zeitgeist is just not even on her radar. It doesn't compute and never has and likely never will. She is free. And it doesn't need to compute; I'm now officially "out" to what is left of my family (most are dead), and I live far from them anyway. And what's left of my family (two elderly older brothers) are tolerant enough to not disrespect my personal choices and beliefs -- to an extent I didn't think they would be, but age mellows people sometimes, and teaches them about what's really (un)important in what passes for the Great Scheme of Things.

I can't tell you how to live your life but in my view you are, to an extent, still voluntarily in prison catering to the crazy sensibilities of your extended family. I'd find something healthier to identify with, and bust out. And that's coming from a compliant Good Son type of individual. Albeit, one who is getting old and tired enough to see what being a Good Boy has gotten me ... bupkis.

[AMACC24]

Yep, my family lives in Vancleave, just north of Pascagoula...And I agree with you about trying to get him to go to church. He has mention recently he wants "our future children to grow up in church" because church no matter the religion has good parts to it. It took everything within me to not slap him when he said that. He has no idea what the F he is talking about. Maybe I can use it as a pretext to show him though. If I can stand the bullsh!t myself. Grrrrr

[AMACC24]

@mordant

Note on the curse words...thanks for the tip. Although it only challenges me to become more creative. (Evil eye, have you guessed I am a redhead yet? Lol)

I do not currently attend services. After I took off I moved around a lot and lived with different family members while hiding from my ex. A lay-off at my job sent me back to my parents house which sent me to my home state after two years away. They have accepted (to a small degree) that I am seriously traumatized from the experiences they do know about and believe I have "temporarily" strayed from the church. In a sense right now I am dependent on their help. Which is why I stress keeping the peace. Do I live in fear of them? No. Do I dread crushing their hearts, and have them telling me "we are praying for you dear". Yes! I am on the way out of the door again. But not far enough that it will do much. I plan well to keep them at arms length. It just sucks.

I've sat down several times and tried writing about my experience. (My personal form of therapy) but it's very difficult to put years of conditioning and verbal abuse down on paper. It was mostly environmental. But there are things I've never been able to verbalize of my experiences.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by AMACC24

I've sat down several times and tried writing about my experience. (My personal form of therapy) but it's very difficult to put years of conditioning and verbal abuse down on paper. It was mostly environmental. But there are things I've never been able to verbalize of my experiences.

I can relate. My experience within fundamentalism (which was not as extreme as yours sounds) was not really traumatic in and of itself; instead, it installed unrealistic expectations in my brain and made me very naïve, and THAT caused traumatic things to happen. A couple of the more powerful and brain-dead memes from my teen years were "just marry a good Christian girl and everything will be fine" and "just have faith in god, be good, do good, mean well, etc., and everything will be fine". I married very badly the 1st time around as a result, and THAT experience combined with the Divorce Taboo was so traumatic for me that I would have exactly the same problem writing about it as you describe. In part because my brain seems to have walled much of the detail of that off from my awareness and I can't recall a lot of the detail if I try. All that is left is the emotional content, which is so negative that I don't go there, either. Plus it has been 21 years since that relationship ended; beyond a certain point, why bother. I have 2 children from that marriage and being present for them given all their baggage from those days has been enough of a job anyway.

So there's the blocking aspect, but you are right, it is hard to convey, to an intended or imagined audience who hasn't been where you have been, how subtle and insidious the environmental aspects of that are. The simple act of having your life revolve around church services and events, your socializing being mostly limited to church people, creates an echo chamber environment that is hard for someone not raised in a bubble to understand.

I have been out of the bubble now for roughly as long as I've been out of my first marriage and I gave up the last of my religious ideations nearly 10 years ago. From this far out, for what it's worth, I can tell you that time and distance away from that "reality distortion field" has helped a lot. I have tried to define myself in terms of what I am and what I embrace rather than in terms of what I am not and what I reject. That means I have to do the hard work of figuring out who I am and what I do / don't believe and why. But it has helped a ton to be something more than "not a fundamentalist Christian". At this point you may well not fully realize how much of your individuality has been disavowed and disenfranchised because you are so much more than the narrow mindset you grew up with.

Hang in there; it gets better.