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Old 04-24-2013, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Tonawanda NY
400 posts, read 465,219 times
Reputation: 700

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My parents and Mother's parents at the time of my birth were all Muslims. My religious beliefs were always being toyed with by Christian family members who of course didn't want to see me burn in hell so I was converted at a young age, 3. I never felt comfortable with either religion so I tried various branches of Christianity until the point were I just sat down with the bible and started reading it from the first page. As I read I saw what the bible's purpose was but Number's 31:17 ended my faith in the bible, and after reading the whole thing I lost faith in the Abrahamic ways.

I studied history of the Middle East, then world history development of religions. The more I learned the less I had a desire to believe in religions, heaven or hell. My family (all Christians now) really takes my lack of religion hard, I'm labeled as stupid, blind, ignorant, possessed by demons. Friends don't seem to care and my husband pretends I'm Catholic in his mind lol.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Tonawanda NY
400 posts, read 465,219 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeppDietrich View Post
I used to be Jehovahs Witness. Its a cult. Wasted too many years on this garbage.
I studied with that group at one point, your right, garbage. Wackiest evening that ended my studying with them was headed to the Memorial Service we saw a group of Wiccan's in the park dressed in white holding hands in a circle. This woman in the car with us shudders and says "Wow, that was so scary, i'm happy we are going to Memorial". And then we sit in room as they pass the cup of wine around representing the blood of Jesus and bread being the flesh, wait for someone to drink it to identify themselves at the 144,000 going to heaven. Yeah but those Wiccan's holding hands were scary but symbolically drinking blood and eating flesh is sane.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:20 PM
 
243 posts, read 391,096 times
Reputation: 557
Something I notice in the Atheist/Agnostic Forum:

Atheist/Agnostic 1: Hey guys, what has been your experience with this?

Other A/A's : This is what I think or this is my experience as an atheist or agnostic.

Religious Person moseys on over : Atheists are wrong and condescending. I can't believe you lot could be so rude and insulting. I hate when an atheist tries to tell me my belief is wrong and bring me over to the dark side. It offends me to even read this in your forum.

Me: WTF mate? It's an atheist forum, what did y'all think we were talking about? The weather? It's like having a Mormom ring your virtual doorbell and crash your party.

I have to give it to some of you frequent posters on the A/A forum. You tirelessly put aside the topic at hand to defend and explain your (non) beliefs in a logical manner to those who feel bringing their agenda over into this forum is necessary.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:45 PM
 
12,783 posts, read 10,050,793 times
Reputation: 16397
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA wayfarer View Post
Something I notice in the Atheist/Agnostic Forum:

Atheist/Agnostic 1: Hey guys, what has been your experience with this?

Other A/A's : This is what I think or this is my experience as an atheist or agnostic.

Religious Person moseys on over : Atheists are wrong and condescending. I can't believe you lot could be so rude and insulting. I hate when an atheist tries to tell me my belief is wrong and bring me over to the dark side. It offends me to even read this in your forum.

Me: WTF mate? It's an atheist forum, what did y'all think we were talking about? The weather? It's like having a Mormon ring your virtual doorbell and crash your party.

I have to give it to some of you frequent posters on the A/A forum. You tirelessly put aside the topic at hand to defend and explain your (non) beliefs in a logical manner to those who feel bringing their agenda over into this forum is necessary.
Love it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
211 posts, read 252,558 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by USA wayfarer View Post
Something I notice in the Atheist/Agnostic Forum:

Atheist/Agnostic 1: Hey guys, what has been your experience with this?

Other A/A's : This is what I think or this is my experience as an atheist or agnostic.

Religious Person moseys on over : Atheists are wrong and condescending. I can't believe you lot could be so rude and insulting. I hate when an atheist tries to tell me my belief is wrong and bring me over to the dark side. It offends me to even read this in your forum.

Me: WTF mate? It's an atheist forum, what did y'all think we were talking about? The weather? It's like having a Mormom ring your virtual doorbell and crash your party.

I have to give it to some of you frequent posters on the A/A forum. You tirelessly put aside the topic at hand to defend and explain your (non) beliefs in a logical manner to those who feel bringing their agenda over into this forum is necessary.
If you were referring to me, I'm agnostic, non-religious. Essentially, you're saying I'm crashing your party. Lol But I'll stop here because I've been guilty of digressing for way too long.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:09 PM
 
39,729 posts, read 11,098,674 times
Reputation: 5143
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAJR View Post
That's a somewhat warped and simplistic view of things. Particularly as the virgin birth does not mean God having sex with Mother Mary. (That was more Thomas Paine's weird misunderstanding)
I quite understand that the doctrines have been refined to sound a bit less daft from the time when the Church thinkers argued about whether the impregnation might have been done through her ear rather than some other way.

Quote:
Treating something someone loves with some respect is called courtesy or empathy. If someone thinks their dog is the reincarnation of their dead spouse, and limits this believe to talks to the dog about their old times (To make it clear I'm not thinking bestiality here), that might be daft sure. But you don't necessarily want to immediately mock the delusion/belief or the person. (Or I don't anyway) You might do more harm than good by doing that. I think that's kind of what the person you're responding to meant.

If we theists are delusional people than I think you should treat us with the kind of respectful seriousness you would to the mentally ill. (Seriously. I think if atheists treated me like a mentally ill person, in the general religion area, it would often mean a real improvement) Unless you're the type to just laugh and point at mentally ill people, but I know you're not.
While I might feel obliged to disagree with someone who came out with that stuff, it is a bit different to someone who comes on the forum and posts explanations of what is so far removed from anything reasonable that to treat it seriously does, as I suggested, make us look as daft as the poster. If it is ludicrous it will get ludi.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:09 PM
 
522 posts, read 493,082 times
Reputation: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
You want to be treated as someone who has to be handled carefully and needs psychiatric help?
It's not ideal, but yes I would prefer that to being treated as an enemy of science or moron or someone whose statements must usually be treated with suspicion as a potential proselytizer. I think at least some of you would have less problem granting a mentally ill person can be loving, kind, and intelligent than you would of a Christian. People with schizophrenia alone include a Nobel laureate and several artists. Bipolar people include great scientists, artists, and apparently atheist comedian Stephen Fry. (His is apparently a mild form called cyclothymia. And this is not an appeal to authority to get you to convert to having Bipolar disorder)

Plus I did have a bout of PTSD induced mania in my early 20s. How I was treated could be frustrating, but for me I would generally prefer condescension or being ignored to animosity. I mean if those are the only options available.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:37 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,311,303 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by athithi View Post
Are you seriously trying to claim that your "jaw-dropping" realization was not a condescending judgment on the credulity of theists, but mere surprise? You must have been one wise 12 year old
I am always serious. Except when I use smileys. Picture Men In Black 1 where "K" tells the woman "We at the FBI do not have a sense of humor that we have been made aware of".

But yes, tongue out of cheek I am telling you what my claim was. If you want to pretend my claim means something else then you are... as I have repeatedly pointed out.... merely engaging in misrepresenting me, my views and my words.

I merely managed, in the naivity of youth, to reach the age of 12ish without realizing that people actually thought the stories I was being told were true stories. I was surprised to find out that they were. That is all. Any other emotion or aspect to my thought process you wish to ascribe to this revelation is yours, not mine, and exists no where except in your own fantasy world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by athithi View Post
You think poorly of theists. You think they are not smart because they believe in a magical entity.
Again, you do not know me, and you are just making things up about me now that are false. If you were to bother looking through my post history before making up egregiously false nonsense about me you would find I have oft expressed the exact opposite to the above. But do not let facts get in the way of the record you are so desperate to play.

I have never tied belief in god to intelligence and have often written the _exact_ opposite here by pointing out that some of humanities greatest minds have subscribed to unsubstantiated nonsense. Newton for example is often cited as one of, if not the, greatest mind that our species has ever produced and I am in full agreement with this. Yet he managed to subscribe to some seriously unsubstantiated woo.

Even the most fit and healthy body can catch a virus. In fact some infections prefer fitter bodies so at times the fitter you are the MORE susceptible you become to some infections. I think this analogy is useful to infection by some infectious memes like belief in god. Sometimes the MORE intelligent you are the more susceptible you become to certain types of memetic infection and I can see why some people even more intelligent than me can subscribe to theistic notions just as easily as those less intelligent than me.

So suffice to say: Your fantasy that I think theists are less smart because of their belief in god is just that. Fantasy. One that is almost the polar opposite of the reality. A fantasy you need to invent and subscribe to in order to carry your central fantasy, which is that atheists are condescending and worthy of your loathing. You have a record you want to play and you will make up anything about anyone if it allows you to play it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by athithi View Post
Could I be wrong in my judgment of your intent?
The question for me is not could you be wrong but could you be MORE wrong and as I described above the answer to THAT question is "not likely".

Quote:
Originally Posted by athithi View Post
Based on your over-reaction to my post, it's quite obvious I pushed a button.
If you want to keep claiming that then by all means continue to do so. Repetition of an error does not lessen the error however and you will simply continue to be wrong. On both counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by athithi View Post
I honestly did not intend to annoy or offend you
Good, because as I said twice before this you did not. Nor can you. So you can stow your apologies as they are unwarranted. More likely is that you are the one getting offended and you are simply projecting.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:57 AM
 
39,729 posts, read 11,098,674 times
Reputation: 5143
It is a common kneejerk poly for the arguers for religion to roll up uninvited, rehearse a few prejudices - e.g

'you think Christians are dumb because they believe in God'

and when we say that we know that many Christians are smart but they check their smarts at the Church door in the greater interest of believing in something that makes not the slightest sense, we get ploy no. 2.

'Oh, you wouldn't have got so angry if I hadn't hit on a fundamental discrediting truth about you atheists.'

We are almost as irritated with these tired old tricks as we are with the misrepresentations.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:15 AM
 
522 posts, read 493,082 times
Reputation: 315
I don't do that, just chuck my mind when going to Church. Believing in something one individual views with incredulity is not the same as having a completely unthinking belief. String theory sounds incredible and there's not much, or any so far as I know, evidence to back it up as a reality. And to be honest I lean toward just not believing it, but my personal incredulity is not an argument that those who believe it are unthinking boobs. And the notion that the best government is one voted on by the people is pretty clearly an argumentam ad popularum type fallacy. But that doesn't mean villages in New England that maintain systems of direct democracy are some kind of fools who don't understand reality.

But this is the atheist section so this is probably inappropriate and I will say no more.
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