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Old 05-08-2013, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,618 posts, read 11,568,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLess View Post
1-3% of US population are atheists/agnostics, and I'm sure there is a minority in the Bible belt.
Au contraire, mon OneLess. Let's instead take a more reasoned and up-to date look-see, instead of some old-fashioned wanna-be desperatisms, OK?

"At one time all societies everywhere presumably believed in gods or god until the advent of the classical philosophical systems in East Asia and Science in the West. Atheism was very slow in becoming an openly asserted belief in the West with little or nothing before the late 18th Century in terms of positively asserted unequivocal atheism. Although there have always been individuals who in fact were, or like Socrates were accused of being atheists, only in the late modern period has statistically sound information become available.

Next (vis-a-vis the generally well-educated N Am. countries...):

"The exact number of atheists in Canada is disputed. (See the section "Statistical problems" above) The Canadian Ipsos Reid poll released September 12, 2011 entitled "Canadians Split On Whether Religion Does More Harm in the World than Good," sampled 1,129 Canadian adults and came up 30% who do not believe in a god.

An older poll shows 19–30% of the population holding an atheistic or agnostic viewpoint."

Then, there's the US:

"The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, found in 2008, 34.2 million Americans (15.0%) claim no religion, of which 1.6% explicitly describes itself as atheist (0.7%) or agnostic (0.9%), nearly double the previous 2001 ARIS survey figure of 0.9%.[63] The highest occurrence of "nones", according to the 2008 ARIS report, reside in Vermont, with 34% surveyed.[64] According to a study conducted by Gallup in May 2010, 16% of Americans declared they have no religious affiliation."

And always growing, certainly since 2008/ Probably more like 20 - 25% now. Oooppps, huh?

More and better-defined info at:

Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Point is, it's always changing, but always upwards and towards the ever-more prevalent atheism. But let's not tell anyone, n'kay?

Otherwise, Christianity is hardly holding it's own, OneLess, if that is what you are hoping for.

Nope: educational facts on biology, geology, the universe and other sciency-type "stuff", well coupled with the growth and expansion of logical thinking methods that are a natural outcome of our advancing education system (well, possibly with the exceptions of several old-fashioned states like Kansas, Georgia, and so on, where semi-permanent and celebrated stultified educational thinking models are still highly regarded...) are taking their inevitable toll.

Out with the ancient and illogical, and Up with the clear-headed, patently obvious and demonstrable!
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:33 AM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,737,699 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Au contraire, mon OneLess. Let's instead take a more reasoned and up-to date look-see, instead of some old-fashioned wanna-be desperatisms, OK?

"At one time all societies everywhere presumably believed in gods or god until the advent of the classical philosophical systems in East Asia and Science in the West. Atheism was very slow in becoming an openly asserted belief in the West with little or nothing before the late 18th Century in terms of positively asserted unequivocal atheism. Although there have always been individuals who in fact were, or like Socrates were accused of being atheists, only in the late modern period has statistically sound information become available.

Next (vis-a-vis the generally well-educated N Am. countries...):

"The exact number of atheists in Canada is disputed. (See the section "Statistical problems" above) The Canadian Ipsos Reid poll released September 12, 2011 entitled "Canadians Split On Whether Religion Does More Harm in the World than Good," sampled 1,129 Canadian adults and came up 30% who do not believe in a god.

An older poll shows 19–30% of the population holding an atheistic or agnostic viewpoint."

Then, there's the US:

"The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, found in 2008, 34.2 million Americans (15.0%) claim no religion, of which 1.6% explicitly describes itself as atheist (0.7%) or agnostic (0.9%), nearly double the previous 2001 ARIS survey figure of 0.9%.[63] The highest occurrence of "nones", according to the 2008 ARIS report, reside in Vermont, with 34% surveyed.[64] According to a study conducted by Gallup in May 2010, 16% of Americans declared they have no religious affiliation."

And always growing, certainly since 2008/ Probably more like 20 - 25% now. Oooppps, huh?

More and better-defined info at:

Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Point is, it's always changing, but always upwards and towards the ever-more prevalent atheism. But let's not tell anyone, n'kay?

Otherwise, Christianity is hardly holding it's own, OneLess, if that is what you are hoping for.

Nope: educational facts on biology, geology, the universe and other sciency-type "stuff", well coupled with the growth and expansion of logical thinking methods that are a natural outcome of our advancing education system (well, possibly with the exceptions of several old-fashioned states like Kansas, Georgia, and so on, where semi-permanent and celebrated stultified educational thinking models are still highly regarded...) are taking their inevitable toll.

Out with the ancient and illogical, and Up with the clear-headed, patently obvious and demonstrable!

Do you not realize the quantity of people in this world and in developed countries such as these, who bag grocery's, work for garbage wages in difficult jobs , get ripped off in employment and still smile with useless and sometimes aching teeth at the customer and keep going to work every day..?

And quacks all over the internet and media, using the prestige of science saying to the world, -this world that they are nothing more then a piece of junk matter, headed to a nothingness grave..?

Exactly where do you loosers get your nerve, getting your junk out in public , while people in society work for nothing to cater to the puffed up, totally uneducated spoiled rotton to the seams continent wrecking boomers..?

Theres just no way a person can be understood as educated and do nothing but...add to the nothingness by suggestion to people who do nothing but get abused. So people come on line or turn the tube on...and theres some mental case science guy saying...with a big stupid grin...no theres no god...now..go to work for nothing...WTF...put the hooka jar aside and do the world at least a 5 min favor.

What a farce. Don't think I'm finished with this atheinsists. Stats...take a look at some real stats boomers. Bunch of cry baby flakes. Royal Wreckers of everything in sight, economy, culture, land, good women, debt hand off, opportunity, and now meaning-hope. What a joke and historys top villain of the mil. Take take take and now nothing left but a disgusting mess, so begrudge hope from zillions of people everywhere.

Last edited by stargazzer; 05-08-2013 at 05:26 AM..
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:39 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,325,267 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
Do you not realize the quantity of people in this world and in developed countries such as these, who bag grocery's, work for garbage wages in difficult jobs , get ripped off in employment and still smile with useless and sometimes aching teeth at the customer and keep going to work every day..?

And quacks all over the internet and media, using the prestige of science saying to the world, -this world that they are nothing more then a piece of junk matter, headed to a nothingness grave..?

Exactly where do you loosers get your nerve, getting your junk out in public , while people in society work for nothing to cater to the puffed up, totally uneducated spoiled rotton to the seams continent wrecking boomers..?
So we should just lie to people, and tell them that they can ignore the abuses of employers, government and other authorities because God will make it right in the afterlife? Don't tell people about evolution because they might question their faith? Better to leave the poor, uneducated masses with religion, because then when they don't have money, education, health, safety , and justice at least they have the opiate of religion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
Theres just no way a person can be understood as educated and do nothing but...add to the nothingness by suggestion to people who do nothing but get abused. So people come on line or turn the tube on...and theres some mental case science guy saying...with a big stupid grin...no theres no god...now..go to work for nothing...WTF...put the hooka jar aside and do the world at least a 5 min favor.

What a farce. Don't think I'm finished with this atheinsists. Stats...take a look at some real stats boomers. Bunch of cry baby flakes. Royal Wreckers of everything in sight, economy, culture, land, good women, debt hand off, opportunity, and now meaning-hope. What a joke and historys top villain of the mil. Take take take and now nothing left but a disgusting mess, so begrudge hope from zillions of people everywhere.
So now atheists are responsible for the bad economy, government debt, class divisions, lack of social mobility, and the fact that you can't find a good woman!? Please! These issues don't have anything to do with what god or god you believe in (or don't), but even if they did laying it at the feet of atheists, the most politically non existent group imaginable, is pretty lame. We are still trying to get laws off the books preventing us from holding office, we don't have time to ruin the world just yet.

-NoCapo
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:24 AM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,737,699 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
So we should just lie to people, and tell them that they can ignore the abuses of employers, government and other authorities because God will make it right in the afterlife? Don't tell people about evolution because they might question their faith? Better to leave the poor, uneducated masses with religion, because then when they don't have money, education, health, safety , and justice at least they have the opiate of religion?



So now atheists are responsible for the bad economy, government debt, class divisions, lack of social mobility, and the fact that you can't find a good woman!? Please! These issues don't have anything to do with what god or god you believe in (or don't), but even if they did laying it at the feet of atheists, the most politically non existent group imaginable, is pretty lame. We are still trying to get laws off the books preventing us from holding office, we don't have time to ruin the world just yet.

-NoCapo
Good now I can wind up with your nonsense.

1) Knock it off with the evolution stuff, trying to assume for yourself that believers all have an issue with evol, or it is an issue is your deal, and bringing it in to beliefs is a twisted little trick which atheists only lie to themselves with. known concrete-don't even bother. Error and lie with no morals #1

2) Keep your lies of knowing to yourself where the prestige of science and badge flashing is used. Its nothing but a pile of lies and outright dishonesty. If anything science supports, many and I know many scientists are believers and the suggestion of knowing in the guise of science is an outright lie. 100%-concrete fact. Manipulated presentations without the equality to debunk the crap. Concrete fact. Error outright lie-no morals #2

3) Atheists report to themselves. There are no ethic's or morals which are outside the atheist surviving selfish and inward cause for priority's by definition. A collapsing soulless begrudging taker by self description other then what a bear would have for family and friends. Every social digression, culture loss in reason, at and directly on the selfish hands of the nothingness by description Atheist, who agrees to exist for no reason. Refusal to take responcibility-no morals error #3

4) For your assuming recklessness, I come from a very prosperous and wealthy family with many intellectual accomplishments through 4 generations. I am for the past few years taken and in promise to someone. So butt out of my personal life. Error # 4 attempt to theive honor from another-no morals, charge>theft....error #4

5) No person can consider them-self knowledgeable, educated in dumping on the many in the manner I have explained. There is no excuse and it demonstrates here -now in your immediacy in thought, the refusal to see the thoughtlessness in effect on so many. Including what has now become the fruits of the takers , a new breed of takers, who have learned from the guilty generation. Slobs, give me this, fix this, give me my food, deliver it, I want it now for 10 dollars and you go to work for what would wind up 20 dollars a day...greedy self centered soulless, worthless, fraidy cats that can't even comprehend what a toddler can understand, if your going to have a belief , guess what NoCapo...the belief is about a God...Gods are not here Double duh to you. Wake up and have a break on the jar. Science explains the world, duh. Error #5...disregard and disrespect for reason, an insult to evolution, society and as well self, including adding to the demented habit...Error #6- waste. Waste out of non respect for values...no morals. Everything is the fault of the hope....less. Thats an adamant atheinsist.

Last edited by stargazzer; 05-08-2013 at 06:41 AM.. Reason: edit and off to respon.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,270 posts, read 9,397,129 times
Reputation: 6188
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
So now atheists are responsible for the bad economy, government debt, class divisions, lack of social mobility...
... and hangnails, likely. I mostly sail past Stargazzer's horribly constructed screeds as I don't pay any mind to posters who can't be bothered with pesky little things like coherency, but I had no idea he was so full of hatred. I may not like his writing style but I have no quarrel with him as I don't know him. But if he has a quarrel with me simply because I disagree with his beliefs, then he has misidentified what's wrong with the world, mostly through projection, as what's wrong with the world isn't so much that some people (dis)believe incorrectly, as that there is insufficient awareness, humility, tolerance and compassion. I don't agree with theism and I argue against it and I would prefer that its hold on people were at least relaxed, but I don't hate theists or wish them ill, even in my private thoughts. After all, I used to be one, and this gives me compassion for them. You'd think a theist could at least reciprocate.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 14,496,236 times
Reputation: 14813
I used to live in Tennessee, and no one ever bothered me about being an atheist. But I also didn't tell anyone I was an atheist, because I was afraid of what might happen.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:33 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,325,267 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
I used to live in Tennessee, and no one ever bothered me about being an atheist. But I also didn't tell anyone I was an atheist, because I was afraid of what might happen.
Yup! Same here. Most folks wouldn't have done anything overt, but openly admitting you are an atheist is definitely a strain on a lot of relationships. If you just stay "non-religious" you get mostly left alone, but "atheist" is a hot-button term. Mostly it was a lot of "smile and nod".

-NoCapo
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
17,074 posts, read 13,014,997 times
Reputation: 17485
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
I'm sure it is against the law for anyone who is Atheist to live close
to the South let alone actually in the South. Really, I'm sure it is written somewhere.......
Hey, you took the words right outta my mouth!
Same sense of humor, I see.
Miss Hepburn
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
17,074 posts, read 13,014,997 times
Reputation: 17485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepulgeek View Post
I. I have heard that people will ask what church you go to
but that has not happened to me.
Edit: And I'm not an atheist.

Oh, you WILL be asked...they will probably say, "Have you found a Church home?"
My advice...works like a charm...go to one service somewhere...memorize the Pastors name...
Now, you can simply say, "Yes, I go to First Christian Church, Pastor Perdue is is good teacher."
He probably is a good teacher, see?

Now, if you really want to get on their good side, ask where they go, are they happy and what times are the services.
I'm tellin' ya... pick your battles, as they say....life is so much easier to keep private what is ok to keep private....
In the Bible Belt, that is....no lies ever...you're just keeping yourself outta people's judgments.

Judgments are like radio waves like any thoughts are...you don't need them directed at you, imo, geeze.
My 2 cents
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:16 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,325,267 times
Reputation: 1318
Wow, so angry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
Good now I can wind up with your nonsense.
wind away!


Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
1) Knock it off with the evolution stuff, trying to assume for yourself that believers all have an issue with evol, or it is an issue is your deal, and bringing it in to beliefs is a twisted little trick which atheists only lie to themselves with. known concrete-don't even bother. Error and lie with no morals #1
I brought it up because education and scientific thought was mentioned by rifleman as something that knocks the feet out from under religion in general. I agree that some believers do understand and agree with, or al least can coexist with scientific consensus. Generally speaking, those believers are less of a problem. By the time they get to the point that they are not trying to use ancient texts as a definitive guide to the world around them, believers are generally pretty reasonable, and content to practice their faith personally within a secular framework. I'm cool with that, even though I disagree with their religion. There does seem to be a correlation between holding to a literal interpretation of Genesis and wanting to alter or remove scientific information from schools, and wanting to enforce religious laws and restrictions on us non-believers. That I find very objectionable. No lie there and no error. I'll get to the morality issue in a moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
2) Keep your lies of knowing to yourself where the prestige of science and badge flashing is used. Its nothing but a pile of lies and outright dishonesty. If anything science supports, many and I know many scientists are believers and the suggestion of knowing in the guise of science is an outright lie. 100%-concrete fact. Manipulated presentations without the equality to debunk the crap. Concrete fact. Error outright lie-no morals #2
Here I absolutely agree. Science cannot tell us anything with absolute certainty. However it is the best tool we have. Unlike religion, it is self correcting and iterative, striving to correct error and improve understanding. Science does not disprove theism, but it can and does debunk specific claims of specific brands of theism. If your faith claims that the earth is 6000 years old, science can provide us with strong evidence that your faith is wrong. If your faith tells you that a scripture is unchanged from its inception, textual and critical analysis can show that you are probably wrong. If your faith makes no real world claims then science has nothing to say about it.

You are also correct that there are scientists who are believers. Issac Newton believed in alchemy, that doesn't mean it is true, or that his contributions to science are lessened. It just means that science is performed by irrational people (we all are) who sometimes believe irrational and unscientific things, even while they contribute major scientific advancements in their field. Again, no lie, no error.

Taking your points out of order...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
4) For your assuming recklessness, I come from a very prosperous and wealthy family with many intellectual accomplishments through 4 generations. I am for the past few years taken and in promise to someone. So butt out of my personal life. Error # 4 attempt to theive honor from another-no morals, charge>theft....error #4
You are reading a lot into a very little. You were complaining about atheists wrecking
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
...everything in sight, economy, culture, land, good women, debt hand off, opportunity, and now meaning-hope.
I was addressing your complaint. In no way did I imply any thing about your family, education, wealth, or sex life. You were the one complaining about "good women". In fact the personal attacks and demonization have come strictly from you! And you complain about my morality!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
5) No person can consider them-self knowledgeable, educated in dumping on the many in the manner I have explained. There is no excuse and it demonstrates here -now in your immediacy in thought, the refusal to see the thoughtlessness in effect on so many. Including what has now become the fruits of the takers , a new breed of takers, who have learned from the guilty generation. Slobs, give me this, fix this, give me my food, deliver it, I want it now for 10 dollars and you go to work for what would wind up 20 dollars a day...greedy self centered soulless, worthless, fraidy cats that can't even comprehend what a toddler can understand, if your going to have a belief , guess what NoCapo...the belief is about a God...Gods are not here Double duh to you. Wake up and have a break on the jar. Science explains the world, duh. Error #5...disregard and disrespect for reason, an insult to evolution, society and as well self, including adding to the demented habit...Error #6- waste. Waste out of non respect for values...no morals. Everything is the fault of the hope....less. Thats an adamant atheinsist.
Wow, so this one got so ranty and incoherent you lost me about halfway through. I did catch the point of the first part, but I think you have the wrong target. I think that statistically you will find that those
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
Slobs, give me this, fix this, give me my food, deliver it, I want it now for 10 dollars and you go to work for what would wind up 20 dollars a day...greedy self centered soulless, worthless, fraidy cats...
overwhelmingly identify as theists! The majority of people in prison... theists! People on welfare... theists! The attitudes you are complaining about didn't originate in atheism and are not limited to it. I think that you will probably find that we have roughly the same amount of slobs, thieves, cheats, and lazy people that any other group has. These are issues common to humanity, not one particular group. It is certainly dishonest to blame a tiny minority of unbelievers for the failure of believers to live up to their own ideals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
3) Atheists report to themselves. There are no ethic's or morals which are outside the atheist surviving selfish and inward cause for priority's by definition. A collapsing soulless begrudging taker by self description other then what a bear would have for family and friends. Every social digression, culture loss in reason, at and directly on the selfish hands of the nothingness by description Atheist, who agrees to exist for no reason. Refusal to take responcibility-no morals error #3
This one I wanted to save for last, as it is an incredibly insulting and incorrect idea that get spread around a lot. The idea that atheists cannot be moral, or have a moral compass is just silly. Every morality is based on human interpretation. Even if you believe there is a god and that it sets the rules, you only have human understanding and interpretation to guide you. We all have man-made morality, us atheists just don't try to pass off our own understanding as being the mandate of heaven. I personally use a moral framework based on empathy and reciprocity, with an emphasis on individual liberty. It winds up being a kind of libertarian golden rule ethic, which has worked very well for me, and those around me.

To sum up, you seem to want very badly to blame all the ills of the world on non-theists, but this is a naive and frankly dishonest view.

-NoCapo
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