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Old 06-08-2013, 11:21 AM
 
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[quote=Matt Marcinkiewicz;29926183]Moderator cut: Post quoted orphaned; hence, orphaned reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
As for MysticPhD, just entertain the possibility that we might inhabit a universe that's as scientifically explicable and meaningless (ultimately; allowing wiggle room for existentialist "meaning-creating" personal philosophies that may or may not (read: may not) be logically tenable) as the rest of us posting in this thread would posit? Please? I feel pretty confident in saying that you can make no argument that any of us here will respect unless you refocus your energies to the empirical realm. Or, if you want to stay non-empirical, how about theoretical physics. Mysticism is dead (objectively; obviously not to the legions who report transformative subjective experiences and don't interpret such experiences as "something that will someday be explained scientifically"), but there are a lot of unsolved problems in physics...I say all this not to burst your bubble but merely to state what is obvious. Well....
Moderator cut: editThere is nothing BUT the material realm (as you call it) but it is widely misunderstood as "material." It is comprised of Field manifesting as energy/mass in myriad configurations . . . including our consciousness/unconsciousness. As long as you do not recognize that your thoughts and feelings are real "substance" in our reality . . . you will not comprehend the truth about our reality and our place in it. Our consciousness and sense of Self is NOT an illusion.

Last edited by june 7th; 06-08-2013 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Our consciousness and sense of Self is NOT an illusion.
Depends how you define illusion really - but this still does not explain your position. We know consciouness exists - but how do you get from that fact to the claim that the universe itself is consciouss too?
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:50 AM
 
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More to the topic, why does it explain Life, the universe and everything better than this hypothesis that the universe itself is intelligent?
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:07 AM
 
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Suggesting it is intellgient does not explain anything though. All the same explanations are required - but now about one extra thing. So rather than explaining anything - which it does not - it leaves us requiring even more explanation.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:14 AM
 
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I concur. The only get -out is the rather debatable eternal intelligence (aka an uncreated God) to break the chain of turtles all the way down. But, that also requires an explanation (a claim backed up with a scriptural quote explains nothing) and no explanation has been made other than those which also (for all we know) apply to a universe of unthinking matter and, in the recent decade, something from nothing begins to look more of a credible explanation.
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