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Old 06-07-2013, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,861 posts, read 3,783,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
This is the basic premise behind Neil Gaiman's novel, American Gods. All the old, formerly powerful gods are still hanging around, but because virtually no one believes in them, they are mere shadows of their former selves -- they are street people, vacuum cleaner salesmen, and the like. Among them is Odin, who wishes to lead a war against the modern, up-and-coming gods and try to re-establish himself.

It's a fun read ... recommended. Although of course anything by Gaiman is pretty good.
That sounds exactly like another Douglas Adams novel: 'The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul' in which, in frustration, Thor blows up the Terminal 2 of Heathrow airport because he can't catch the 15.37 flight to Oslo. His father Odin meanwhile has given up and confines himself to a nursing home. As punishment for his sons immature behaviour he makes him count all the pebbles on the beach in Wales.
Anyway I think we've got off track. I'm going to order your book. Sounds fun.

Last edited by Cruithne; 06-07-2013 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,369,507 times
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Default Hypothesize, test, document and then theorize. Voila! God does exist!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
I love hypotheticals. As far as labeling exercises, I tend to agree with you.

Perhaps a better way to ask the question would be this. As per point 1, it must be worshipped.

Would you be willing to worship a natural/material intelligence that created (assuming this was proven) our universe? I would not.
"Worship" is such a strong word, don't you think? But let's leave that one be for now, and let's hypothesize, like true scientists, that some future objective and repeatable test does indicate the very likely probability (and let's assign it a confidence interval of, oh... 98%. Purty durned high, huh?) that there is indeed some powerful entity roaming the endlessly huge universe looking for places to "make light and scantily clad females" out of a torn and ripped-out rib (PS: that's gotta leave a mark, and yet, I can't find one...).

Then, are we/you/me bound then to obey, if not by threat or deceit, to utterly OBEY them? How do we know they are not just some universal conquerer bent on amassing a surging mob of frightened illiterates who will serve as a later food and protein source? To be coarsely harvested specifically for our v. useful DNA perhaps?

http://www.robbierocks.ch/Pic's/Destruction%20.jpg

Or even if they are benevolent, we also have our own creative souls to fill and attend to, to produce such intellectual implausibilities as:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...hhQ3a0RZVe41ig

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...74Vl2-onwiLQne

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...UmtONl91ygopS6

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...RxJ2Qm1mHOg4tn

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...djQ8t_m8wV9m7f

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...HEbCOLrFn088cK

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...47_634x382.jpg (Pretty Godly you gotta agree now, huh?)

....and endless other amazingly creative inventions, all absent your particular Abrahamic God. Seems to me we're doin' quite alright on our own, without formalized "worship", yes? You know, without some meaningless & unquantifiable "howling and praying" element. That's just fear and hominid self-aggrandizment kicking in, for heaven's sake!

Of course, after consierable thought, evaluation and tests of my hypothesis right here on C-D, I'm now asserting that there are two sub-species of recently Evolved hominids to be found here: the "we need constant spiritual guidance, and a blindered faith in some therial entity ghat we have never seen nor heard from, but just blindly assume is there with our best inteerests at heart!",

Or the other type, us "Creative, intrigued, critically thinking types, those who are always on the lookout for improved answers or even new ones to persistent and old questions". They who would not be able to utilize any such "Stop Your Non-Linear Thinking Processes Immediately!" types, those mental cretins who demand attention and allegiance to their "fraught with fakery" but absolutely mandated ministrations.

I'm happily a part of the second sub-species. It is us who continue to advance the state of knowledge and understanding in this rapidly "shrinking" world and eventually, universe. Praise be with us, eh? We are, in fact, the essential, but non-erosive and fear-mongering 21st Century and beyond "Godly types!". Trust me / us! Honest!

Last edited by rifleman; 06-09-2013 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,885,877 times
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I'll just state the obvious:
What ever you imagine God to be, God will be.
What ever you imagine God to want, you will give.
What ever you imagine God has commanded of you, you will obey.

So, imagine away! lol

Most have imagined a God that aids in controlling a mass populous. So it does. Pretty simple. IMO, of course.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,191 posts, read 9,079,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
How do we know they are not just some universal conquerer bent on amassing a surging mob of frightened illiterates who will serve as a later food and protein source?
Reminds me of one of the better Twilight Zone episodes, entitled, "To Serve Man". Aliens appear and put force fields between all the national borders, preventing war, give us amazing new technology to greatly increase crop yields, and say they are benevolent and just want to help us. Mankind enters a new golden era. As an added bonus, spaceships leave regularly for the alien's home world -- free tours of the universe, the tab's on us. But ... no one ever comes back. One of our scientists finds a book accidentally left by one of the aliens, with the English title, To Serve Man. But the contents are all in alien script.

The scientist is, handily, a linguist and sets to deciphering the script. The protagonist of our story thinks that the linguist's concerns are overblown. Just as he is getting abord the alien spaceship for his free trip, his linguist colleague bursts through the spectators, screaming, "Don't go aboard! Don't go aboard! IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!"
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,398 posts, read 9,885,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Reminds me of one of the better Twilight Zone episodes, entitled, "To Serve Man". Aliens appear and put force fields between all the national borders, preventing war, give us amazing new technology to greatly increase crop yields, and say they are benevolent and just want to help us. Mankind enters a new golden era. As an added bonus, spaceships leave regularly for the alien's home world -- free tours of the universe, the tab's on us. But ... no one ever comes back. One of our scientists finds a book accidentally left by one of the aliens, with the English title, To Serve Man. But the contents are all in alien script.

The scientist is, handily, a linguist and sets to deciphering the script. The protagonist of our story thinks that the linguist's concerns are overblown. Just as he is getting abord the alien spaceship for his free trip, his linguist colleague bursts through the spectators, screaming, "Don't go aboard! Don't go aboard! IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!"

"It's a Cookbook!" Ahah... I get it! - YouTube

Ha ha ha, I remember that one. That's the thing, who knows why it's been created.......da da da daaaaaa!!
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,617 posts, read 2,063,258 times
Reputation: 2410
There was a time I was convinced my dog thought I was a God, then he saw me picking up his droppings.....not exactly a Godly task.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:39 PM
 
278 posts, read 255,401 times
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God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:40 PM
 
278 posts, read 255,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baxendale View Post
There was a time I was convinced my dog thought I was a God, then he saw me picking up his droppings.....not exactly a Godly task.

Then you realized you dog was god because he domesticated you?
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,853 posts, read 18,557,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDragon View Post
God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.
A pithy summary of my view. The manufacture of gods was to explain that which eluded understanding. The more we have learned about natural laws, the less was needed to be assigned to supernatural realms.

That doesn't permit us to say that there is no doubt that eventually everything will be understood as natural phenomena and the need for gods will evaporate, but the progress has been linear so far, no backsliding to popular moon worship. That encourages the hope that eventually the day will come.

Of course there are no indications that it will come about during my lifetime and if it does, distant generations from now, it will no longer be a concern of mine.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:44 AM
 
39,031 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDragon View Post
Then you realized you dog was god because he domesticated you?
Cats and Dogs. Dogs are slobberingly devoted to worship one bcause of being brought up in the faith. Cats prowl around and eventually choose one they like.
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